On 6/11/2024 12:24 PM, De'vID wrote:
I think it's different because the object of {SIv} is something the subject is wondering about (and thus may or may not be true), whereas the object of {Sov} is something that the subject knows (or doesn't know, in the case of {Sovbe'}) and should be a fact.
But in the case of *chabwIj nIHpu' Mike 'e' vISovbe'* you're supposing that *chabwIj nIHpu' Mike* is a statement of fact, while with *tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh 'e' vISIv* you're supposing that *tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh* is a hypothetical. I put it to you that Klingon doesn't actually distinguish whether the first sentence of a sentence-as-object is indicative or subjunctive. English makes the distinction with the /if/ or /whether/ or /that,/ but Klingon does no such thing. So if you're someone who doesn't know whether Mike stole your pie, you have clear context to say *chabwIj nIHpu' Mike 'e' vISovbe',* and it'll be interpreted as a subjunctive clause, meaning /I don't know whether Mike stole my pie./ We see this sort of thing in canon a lot. For instance, when Klaa says *«qIrq vIjeylaHchugh,» *Vixis responds *«qIbDaq SuvwI''e' SoH Duj law' Hoch Dun puS.»* Vixis's statement is subjunctive in context, but it's not /marked/ as subjunctive in any way. She's not saying Klaa /is/ the greatest warrior in the galaxy; she's saying he /would be/ the greatest warrior in the galaxy /if/ he could defeat Kirk. So I see no problem with saying *chabwIj nIHpu' Mike 'e' vISovbe'.* I'm taking the statement *chabwIj nIHpu' Mike,* never mind whether it's a fact or not, and saying that I do not know it. If the context were "Hey, did you hear that Mike stole your pie?" it would be interpreted as "No, I didn't know that Mike stole my pie." If the context were "Hey, has Mike stolen your pie?" it would be interpreted as "I don't know whether Mike stole my pie." -- SuStel http://trimboli.name