On 11/20/2022 12:22 AM, zrajm via tlhIngan-Hol wrote:
But I started to wonder what's going on in these phrases. I figure «jIH je» are abbreviations of the longer phrases «juH qach vIghaj je (jIH)» and «vIraS vIjaH vIneH je (jIH)». And, maybe, since the pronoun «jIH» is the only thing verb-like in the sentence, it acts a verb in the shortened phase, and the «je» therefore comes after it. (Though, with that interpretation, «jIH je» sounds more like “I am too” to my ears – but I remember taking about this with someone [HoD Qanqor? Seqram? Qov?] at a qep'a' at some point and getting pushback. – So clearly other people think differently.)
I know I have pushed back against it. *je* is a conjunction that follows /multiple/ nouns to conjoin them or a verb to impart an /also/ adverbial sense. But the *jIH* people use in *jIH je* isn't being used as a verb; it's being used as a noun, typically as a subject.
But, what if «jIH» isn't a verb at all in that sentence? (Is there a verb requirement in Klingon sentences? If a lone adverb can act as a sentence [given adequate context] then maybe a noun [or a pronoun functioning as a noun] can too?)
Is there a requirement that all utterances in Klingon be sentences? No. If I say *SSS!* at someone in Klingon, it is meaningful: it means I'm about to give a command or something is about to happen. But it's not a sentence.
If that's so, wouldn't it mean that the sentences «juH qach vIghaj je jIH» and «vIraS vIjaH vIneH je jIH» should rather be abbreviated as «je jIH» (retaining the word order of the longer sentence)?
Or maybe the response could even abbreviated to just «je»? – Though I figure the pronoun is quite likely to be used for emphasis since that is new information the responder is wishing to convey.
So, what do you think? Is «je jIH» better than «jIH je»? And what are you arguments for your belief? – Or should the phrase be avoided altogether and expressed some other way? How?
In my opinion, the Klingon equivalent to /me too/ is to repeat the verb in the first person and add a *je.* For example: Klingon 1: *romuluSnganpu' vImuS!* /I hate Romulans!/ Klingon 2: *vImuS je!* /Me too!/ Klingon 1: *SIbI' ruchbe'chugh chaH, jImej.*/If they don't get on with it right now, I'm leaving. /Klingon 2: *jImej je!* /Me too!/ -- SuStel http://trimboli.name