So, to summarize.. {juH vIjaH} "I go to the house" = correct {juHDaq vIjaH} "I go to the house" = correct but redundant {juHvo' jIjaH} "I go away from the house" = correct {juHvo' vIjaH} "I go away from the house" = awkward and maybe wrong/problematic. Right ? qunnoq jan puqloD On 9 Aug 2017 5:37 pm, "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote: On 8/9/2017 10:18 AM, Aurélie Demonchaux wrote: *juHDaq vIjaH* is considered redundant because the object of *jaH* inherently
includes a locative sense. Anything you *jaH* is something you're *jaH* -ing *to.*
There is no inherent "away from" sense to *jaH,* so *juHvo' vIjaH* is probably an awkward phrase, if not downright disallowed.
On the other hand, the Klingon Dictionary uses the below examples: {pa'Daq yIjaH} <Go to the room.> (section 3.3.5., p27) {pa'vo' yIjaH} <Leave the room!> (section 3.3.5., p28) {jolpa'Daq yIjaH} <Go to the transport room!> (section 7.1, p73) So it seems ok and cannon to use -Daq and -vo' suffixes along with <jaH>. I didn't say it wasn't. Specifically, I said that a *-vo'* noun *as the object of* *jaH* might not work (and only might). I didn't say anything about a *-vo'* noun that isn't the object of *jaH.* In the TKD example above, you can't tell whether *pa'vo' yIjaH* has *pa'vo'* as the object of *jaH* or as a syntactic noun at the beginning. Also, Okrand has revised his use of *-Daq* a little since TKD came out. For instance, in PK (before the *HolQeD *article where he talks about verbs of motion) he says *naDevvo' vaS'a'Daq majaHlaH'a'** can we get to the Great Hall from here?* According to the *HolQeD* interview, that should mean *can we, in the Great Hall, go from here?* When Okrand revises the rules, I see that as invoking the statement in TKD's introduction that warns that the grammar is only a poorly understood sketch. So the validity of those examples in TKD to verify this point must be considered suspect. -- SuStelhttp://trimboli.name _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org