On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 2:03 PM SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 2/21/2019 1:37 PM, Ed Bailey wrote:
It could be translated as "the many," just as *qanwI'* can be translated "the old."
Actually, I want to counter this. *qanwI'* can be translated *the old* only in the sense that plural suffixes are optional in Klingon, and *qanwI'pu'* means *the old.* Assuming no dropped plural suffix, *qanwI'* only means *old one.*
Even *qanwI'* singular could be translated as *the old*, if the speaker is generalizing. Do' DIvI' Hol wa' qech nelbe' tlhIngan ngIq mu'. nel net jalchugh, Dalqu'choH tlhIngan Hol.
TKD is fairly clear on the meaning of *-wI',* and it's always explained as *thing which does* or *one who does,* and even once as *thing which is* (we have since gotten canon for *one who is*). Nowhere is it explained as *things which do**, **those who do, things which are* or *those who are.*
I agree that it's a fine point, but I don't think it's rigid so much as careful not to stray beyond what we know *-wI'* does.
Again, I'm not saying that the language is necessarily this specific, just that the evidence we actually have seems to point this way. Okrand could easily clarify with, "Oh, sure, *law'wI'pu'* means *the many,*" and there'd be no problem. You just can't get there with what we have now without making an assumption.
I'm with you on disliking *law'wI'pu'*, but only because *law'* is inherently plural when applied to count nouns. It grates on my ear for the same reason **ngopmey* would. Simply because Okrand has described* the action of *-wI'* using the singular nouns *one* and *thing* does not mean he intended this syntactic marker to be incompatible with inherently plural verbs. By the same token, one could take his exact words as evidence that a verb+*-wI'* cannot refer to mass noun, since these are never referred to as *one* or *thing*. I do not expect he'd object to the language of TKD 3.2.2 being understood as *that which does/**is*. * I think "describe" is a more accurate term than "define" for how Okrand presents the Klingon language, with all that that implies. ~mIp'av <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>