On 4/7/2022 9:18 AM, Iikka Hauhio wrote:
Dana'an:
Suppose I say: {wa'Hu' jIghungDI', pItSa' vIvunpu'}, for "yesterday, as soon as I was hungry, I ordered a pizza". I'm asking this because I understand the klingon as "yesterday, as soon as I'm hungry, I have ordered a pizza", meaning that I "feel" it very close to "yesterday, as soon as I'm hungry, I've (already) ordered a pizza".
Perhaps you could say
*wa'Hu' jIghungchoHDI', wejHa' pItSa' vIvunpu'.* * * to make clear that you have ordered the pizza as of becoming hungry.
Yes, the issue here is that *-DI'* on verbs expressing qualities often makes little sense, because "as soon as" implies that something happens /as soon as/ the expressed change occurs. *jIghungDI'* doesn't express a change of state; it only expresses a state, so there's nothing "as soon as" about it. *jIghungchoHDI'* solves this problem. A brief glance through canon doesn't bring any quality verbs with *-DI'* to my attention, with one exception that doesn't really count. (/paq'batlh/ has *rInDI'*/as soon as it is finished,/ but the verb *rIn* itself already implies a change of state to a completion, so it's not a good example.) One wonders if /Q/*-DI'* is another semantically non-sensible combination in Klingon. The other issue here is that *-DI'* doesn't mean "as soon as the action expressed is finished." *vIHoHDI'* doesn't mean that something happens as soon as he is dead; it means, basically, /at the same moment that I kill him./ If you want to describe something that occurs upon the completion of the killing, rather than simultaneously with the killing, you'd need to say *vIHoHpu'DI'.* So for instance: *jaghwI' vIHoHDI', qabDajDaq jItuy'.*/When I kill my enemy, I spit on his face./ and *jaghwI' vIHoHpu'DI', tajwIj vISay'moH.*/When I have killed my enemy, I clean my knife./ In the first sentence, I stab my enemy and, as he stares at me with bulging eyes, I spit on his face. In the second sentence, I stab my enemy, then he drops to the ground and dies, and then I clean my knife. So if we have *wa'Hu' jIghungchoHDI', pItSa' vIvunpu',* we're saying that at the moment yesterday that I went from not hungry to hungry, I ordered a pizza. Again, "moment" in this context doesn't necessarily mean "instant"; these two events just happen approximately simultaneously from a human, rather than a precise, perspective. *-DI'* doesn't imply precise simultaneity, just a reasonable approximation. Hey, my stomach is starting to rumble. Hand me the phone. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name