On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 8:29 AM mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
'epIl naH ghIrep naH Sutra'ber naH
but..
tera' na'ran tera' na'ran'a' tanje'rIn
and..
'anyan 'oQqar gharlIq 'oQqar
andl let's not forget
tlhagh patat 'oQqar naQHom
With regards to the fruits, I can't understand the rationale by which some fruits have the {naH} and some don't.
In the case of {tera' na'ran} (and the variations on it), the difference is that it's not a transliteration of the Federation Standard name of the fruit. It's being described by reference to a Klingon fruit, the *na'ran*. A Klingon speaker presumably already knows that a {na'ran} is a fruit. Same thing for {tera' peb'ot} for "cucumber". In the case of {'oQqar}, they're described that way because there's a more-specific Klingon word for that part of a plant. (I have some questions about this topic, actually, but I'll save them for another time.) {tanje'rIn} is really the only odd one out. Perhaps Klingons have somehow become familiar enough with tangerines to not need to add the descriptive {naH}. Or perhaps the Klingon style of referring to off-world plants changed at some point after the Eurotalk food list.
Does this mean that while we can say {tanje'rInmey Soppu' qeSHoS}, we can't just say {'epIlmey Soppu' qeSHoS} ? Do we *need* to add the {naH} too, thus writing {'epIl naHmey Soppu' qeSHoS} ?
I don't think we know one way or the other for certain. Personally, though, I don't think there's much of a problem with dropping the {naH}, or {'oQqar}, or whatever. I'd probably keep it for {per naHmey} and {ray' tIr} just because the transliterations are actual Klingon words. And if your audience is likely to be a bunch of {'I'SeghImpu'}, you might want to stick with the more precise version. Maybe you could use the full name the first time it's mentioned, and then just the transliteration part. You don't need to refer to Worf as {mogh puqloD} every time you mention him, after all.
Similarly, if we want to say "the chef put french fries next to the steak".
Can't we just say {Ha'DIbaH baylaD retlhDaq tlhagh patat naQHommey lanpu' vutwI'} ? Do we *need* to add the {'oQqar} too, thus writing {Ha'DIbaH baylaD retlhDaq tlhagh patat 'oQqar naQHommey lanpu' vutwI'}?
If it were me, I might not even bother with the {tlhagh}. I feel like {patat naQHommey} would suffice in most contexts, unless the audience was utterly unfamiliar with Earth steak-related culinary practices. (On another note, I think you could just call a steak {Ha'DIbaH}. {Ha'DIbaH baylaD} mostly makes me think of deli meats, not steaks.)