This was going to be a thread where I would ask for clarification on something I didn't understand. Luckily though, SuStel already clarified this matter on the following thread: perfective {-pu'} using/combining aspect with no aspect http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/2022-April/019663.html But I'll proceed by writing some thoughts on this thread, more as note to my future self, explaining to him what it was that made me/him/us confused about this matter. So.. The whole confusion started when I wanted to write: "the inhabitants had started from the earliest times consulting the oracle". After some thought, I decided translating this sentence as "the inhabitants had started obtaining the advice of the oracle, when the the early eras had become to happen". So I wrote: Qun 'otHa'wI' qeS luSuqchoHpu' ngan, qaSchoHpu'DI' bovmey 'eq But the problem now was the following.. Suppose I put the second part of that sentence first: qaSchoHpu'DI' bovmey 'eq, Qun 'otHa'wI' qeS luSuqchoHpu' ngan This sentence now gave me the impression that "when the early eras have begun to happen, the inhabitants had begun obtaining the advice of the oracle", meaning that their starting to obtain the advice, had preceded the commencement of the early eras. This confusion continued until SuStel wrote in the aforementioned thread: ********** quote starts ********** SuStel: Saying wa'Hu' jIXpu' doesn't mean "as of yesterday I have already done X." It means "yesterday, I performed a completed action X." "Completed" doesn't mean action X was a fulfillment of a goal; it's just a way of looking at action X from afar, without internal parts. ********** quote ends ********** Of course, SuStel doesn't talk about a {-XchoHpu'DI', -YchoHpu'} case, but I think that whatever goes for the {wa'Hu' jIXpu'} goes as well for the {-XchoHpu'DI', -YchoHpu'}. Instead of a "yesterday" when the performing of a completed action occured, we now have a {-choH} which is {-pu'}ed when/as soon as a {-choHpu'} happens. So all is good. But unfortunately, I still had the problem already described, whenever I read the {qaSchoHpu'DI' bovmey 'eq, Qun 'otHa'wI' qeS luSuqchoHpu' ngan} "when the early eras have begun to happen, the inhabitants had begun obtaining the advice of the oracle". And I couldn't understand why I was having this problem. Until I realized what was happening (or at least I think I did..) My confusion started from reading the {qaSchoHpu'DI' bovmey 'eq, Qun 'otHa'wI' qeS luSuqchoHpu' ngan} as "when the early eras have begun to happen, the inhabitants had begun obtaining the advice of the oracle", and then translating the English sentence to Greek. If however I read the Klingon as "as soon as the early eras have begun to happen, the inhabitants have begun obtaining the advice of the oracle" (i.e. instead of a "when" I used "as soon as" and instead of a "had" I used a "have"), then neither the English nor the Greek equivalent would sound strange. All I had to do would be perform these tweaks, and voila! Bob's your uncle (as this obscure English idiom/proverb/saying whatever the hell it is, would say..) So finally the confusion went away and everything became right as rain. -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ