On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 at 13:41, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
De'vID:
{'op na'ran Soppu' qeSHoS} "the fox ate some of the oranges, considered individually" {'op na'ranmey Soppu' qeSHoS} "the fox ate some of the oranges, considered collectively"
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. But there's something I can't understand; what is the difference between "considered individually" and "considered collectively"?
I don't think there's very much difference in this particular example: {'op na'ran Soppu' qeSHoS} You might say this if, for example, out of 50 oranges, the fox ate 10, but left 40 intact. Considered individually, the fox ate some of the oranges. {'op na'ranmey Soppu' qeSHoS} You might say this if, for example, out of a bunch of oranges, the fox ate a few completely, and ate some others partially. Considered collectively, the fox ate some of the oranges. There are some situations where the difference might be much more clear. Consider this canon example with {Hoch}: {targhlIj yab tIn law' no'lI' Hoch yabDu' tIn puS} "Your targ has a bigger brain than all your ancestors put together!" (That is, your targ's brain is bigger than all your ancestors' brains considered collectively. If your targ has an average brain, each of your ancestor's brains must be tiny because their combined size is still smaller than a targ's.) Compare this with: {targhlIj yab tIn law' no'lI' Hoch yab tIn puS} "Your targ has a bigger brain than each of your ancestors!" (That is, your targ's brain is bigger than all your ancestors' brains considered individually. If your targ has an average brain, each of your ancestor's brains might be just a bit smaller than a targ's, but their combined size might be much bigger than a single targ's.) Now, let's consider the original example you brought up, assuming {'op} works like {Hoch}: {'op SuvwI' po' law' tlhIngan yo' SuvwI' law' po' puS} "Some of the warriors, taken individually, are more skilled than many warriors in the Klingon fleet". (Out of the warriors I'm talking about, there are some individuals who are more skilled than many warriors in the Klingon fleet, on a one-to-one comparison basis.) Compare this with: {'op SuvwI'pu' po' law' tlhIngan yo' SuvwI'(pu') law' po' puS} "Some of the warriors, taken collectively, are more skilled than many warriors in the Klingon fleet". (Out of the warriors I'm talking about, if you consider some of them collectively as a group, they are more skilled than many warriors in the Klingon fleet put together.) In the first case, I expect that there are individuals among the warriors who can win in one-on-one combat against many Klingons in the fleet. In the second case, perhaps the warriors are some kind of elite force, and as a team they can defeat an army many times their size. I have no direct evidence that {'op} works this way. I'm extrapolating from the way {Hoch} works and the similarity between {Hoch} and {'op}. It might be that {'op} doesn't work this way, but I do think it does, and it's consistent with the only known example of its usage in canon. -- De'vID