On the other hand.. Perhaps, I'm approaching this wrong way ; I'm paying attention to the english translation of the words {Dab} and {'el}, without actually *feeling* their meaning. As SuStel pointed out {Dab} means "inhabit" ; the "in/at", at its english translation, were put in an effort to provide for the reader a better understanding of its meaning. Similarly the {'el} means "enter" and that's it. The "go in" was added in an effort to further explain its meaning. In dark of the above, then we could indeed understand the {Hatlh luDabbogh Ha'DIbaHmey} and the {pa' vI'el}. Now, as far as the {quSDaq jIba'} is concerned, we can understand why we don't use {quSDaq vIba'}, for the simple reason that "I sit on the chair" ; I don't "sit the chair". mop Hurgh qunnoq On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 12:17 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
SuStel:
The second sentence is correct. Think of {Dab} as meaning “inhabit” and it’ll make more sense.
maj.
So, since the {Hatlh luDabbogh Ha'DIbaHmey} is the correct choice, then if I want to say "I enter the room", I will say {pa' vI'el} right ?
But I still can't understand.. If the {Hatlh luDabbogh Ha'DIbaHmey} and the {pa' vI'el} are correct, then why don't we say too {quSDaq vIba'}, for "I sit on the chair" ? If the answer is "because we have the {-Daq} on the {qus}", then I will say that both the {Dab} and {'el} have within them an integrated "in".
Unless of course both the "dwell/reside in/at and go in" have the concepts of "in/at" working in an optional way.
In that case, if we disregarded the "in/at", then I understand we could say "I dwell the house / I enter the room", thus justifying the {vIDab} / {vI'el}.
Perhaps the answer lies on the meaning which the english sentence tries to convey ; if it is "I inhabit the house" then {juH vIDab}, if it is "I dwell in the house" then {juH jIDab}. Similarly, if the meaning is "I enter the room" then perhaps the way to go is {pa' vI'el}. But if it is "I go in the room" then {pa' jI'el}. On the other hand, if the {'el} is to be considered a verb of movement then we always need to say {pa' vI'el} and the plot thickens..
Anyway this is rather confusing, so if someone could shine some darkness on the matter, I would surely appreciate it.
mIv Hurgh
On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 9:49 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
The second sentence is correct. Think of {Dab} as meaning “inhabit” and it’ll make more sense.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name
From: mayqel qunenoS Sent: Saturday, July 9, 2016 11:52 AM To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Cleaning outdoor dogs ? Seriously ?
{Hatlh Dabbogh Ha'DIbaHmey}
animals which dwell in the countryside
or
{Hatlh luDabbogh Ha'DIbaHmey}
animals which dwell in the countryside
since the {Dab} includes the "in/at" meaning, I think the correct must
be {Hatlh Dabbogh Ha'DIbaHmey}. I think the {Hatlh luDabbogh
Ha'DIbaHmey} would be used if the {Dab} didn't include the "in/at",
case in which the meaning would be "animals who dwell the
countryside".
after all we say {quSDaq jIba'} and not {quSDaq vIba'}, qar'a' ?
but I just want to make certain..
On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 6:42 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
tera'Daq wa' Ha'DIbaH Samlu' ; loS 'uS ghaj 'ej motlh veD ghaj je.
tlhIngan targh rur Ha'DIbaHvam 'ej Ha'DIbaHvamvaD dog lupong tera'ngan.
tlhaQmo' 'ej matlhmo', luvuv HochHom tera'nganpu' 'ej luparHa' je ;
pIj juHmeychajDaq lulan je..
DaH, pIj mIlloghvam lu'cha' ngevmeH much : puchpa'Daq dog Say'moHlu'.
'ach jISIv : luSay'moHlu' 'e' lupoQ'a' dogmey ?
ben law', yotlhDaq HatlhDaq, dogmey law' ghajpu' vavwI'. yotlhvamDaq
reH tlhab dogmey. 'ej reH yavDaq Qot bIH.
meqvammo', not DISay'moHta'. qatlh DISay'nISmoH ? DaH DISay'moHchugh
vaj qaSDI' vagh tup lamqa' !
'ej maHvaD not jatlh Ha'DIbaH Qel, dogvam yISaymoH !
toH, ngoDvam vIHar : lam Hatlh Dabbogh Ha'DIbaHmey'e' net pIH.
ngoDvammo' pe'vIl puchpa' dog 'elnISmoH pagh !
mop Hurgh
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