jatlh SuStel: I would hesitate to include any type 1, 6, or 8 suffixes on a *-wI'* verb. 1, because I'm not sure about how the reflexive nature of the word interacts with *-wI'* (but I'd probably accept something like *HIvchuqwI'** those who attack each other*). 6, because there are analogous noun suffixes to do the same thing, except *-chu',* which seems more important to a noun's fundamental meaning. 8, because *-neS* would be more appropriate on the main verb of the sentence, not tucked away inside a noun. I'd think Type 1 would generally work, but only for actions that can be reflexive. And {HIvchuqwI'} would make sense to me used as a singular noun, knowing that it's a word like {'er'In}: even if {megh'an} isn't mentioned, I know there must be one. {yayta' wa' HIvchuqwI' neH} makes sense, doesn't it? Of course {-chu'} works with {-wI'}, or else ghunchu'wI' would vanish in a puff of grammar, and I expect everyone would accept {HubneSwI'} and {HIvneSwI'} as about the only exceptions to your caveat about Type 8. But for other suffixes plus {-wI'}, I'd expect the the likeliest cause of raised eyebrows would be {-lu'}. There isn't a consensus on this, though one of my fondest wishes is for Maltz to confirm my opinion on the matter. -- mIp'av yergho bu''a' baHwI' IKAV chuch 'etlh My modeling blog: http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/ My other modeling blog: http://bellerophon.blog.com/