On 6/22/2016 9:18 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
De'vID:
Saying {jIH mayqel} is like saying "Me Tarzan". It'll be understood, but it's not grammatical. thank you for replying ; however what you wrote, contradicts SuStel's input which is the following :
SuStel :
A Klingon to-be sentence expresses the idea X = Y. 'elaDya'ngan jIH me = Greek; mayqel jIH me = Michael. There is no a, an, or the in Klingon." if X=Y, then Y=X right ?
I did not intend to suggest that Klingon grammar can be manipulated by the rules of mathematics.
furthermore, SuStel wrote..
SuStel :
You should more or less ignore the ideas of subject and object with regard to to-be sentences. I can understand ignoring the ideas of subject and object with regard to to-be sentences ; but how placing the {mayqel} after the {jIH} is able to produce "me michael" ? Since in to-be sentences X=Y and vice versa, if {jIH mayqel} produces "me michael", then {mayqel jIH} must produce the same result too. right ?
I don't quite agree with De'vID's analogy of /me Tarzan./ Klingon's /normal/ mode of to-be sentences are like /me Tarzan./ *tlhIngan jIH* is the equivalent of saying /me Klingon./ The only difference is that the Klingon pronoun can take suffixes for added meaning. Saying *SuStel 'oH pongwIj'e'* is the equivalent of saying /SuStel me name./ Notice that I say /equivalent./ Do not try to copy the grammar of /me Tarzan/ into Klingon. It is only an illustration. Klingon's to-be sentence rules must simply be learned. They are what they are because they simply are. When associating a noun with a pronoun, the noun comes first. It doesn't matter whether the noun is a common noun or a proper noun. *Human **jIH. SuStel jIH.* When linking two nouns together, one noun is the "topic" or "subject" noun. This is the noun you're "starting" with. The other noun is the noun being introduced later. *Human **ghaH SuStel'e' */as for SuStel, he is a human./ Here, *SuStel* is the topic or subject; *Human* is the noun being introduced to associate with him. *yaHDajDaq ghaHtaH SuStel'e'* /as for SuStel, he is at his duty station./ *SuStel* is the topic or subject; *yaHDajDaq* is being used to associate with him. *SoH 'Iv* and *'Iv SoH* appear in both forms because (a) Okrand probably forgot he did it one way, and (b) *'Iv* is a kind of pronoun too, so either word can satisfy the pronoun part of a to-be sentence. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name