On 9/19/2016 11:38 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
It always pisses me off, to read canon sentences which make no sense ;
matlhHa'lu'chugh vaj Doghlu' 'e' yaymeH molor the way I understand the use of the suffix {-lu'}, and the way we have discussed it here so many months, it is used to mean that "someone does something to someone" ; not that "someone does something period". For the latter purpose we use {vay'}; not {-lu'}.
I don't happen to have /paq'batlh/ handy, so I can't tell you what the actual English version says, and I don't know what *yaymeH* means. But I can tell you that *-lu'* does not mean "someone does something to someone." It means "someone or something unspecified or abstract does something." Maybe it's done to something, maybe not. *matlhHa'lu'chugh */if someone unspecified is disloyal / *Doghlu' */someone unspecified is foolish/
If I want to say "someone confuses me" I will say {vImISmoHlu'}, and if I want to say "someone is confused" I will write {mIS vay'}. I can't write {mISlu'} meaning that "someone is confused".
Sure you can. The difference is that *vay'* indicates a definite "someone," while *-lu'* might be used when that someone is more abstract (though it doesn't necessarily mean that).
At the aforementioned jay' sentence we obviously have a meaning which goes something like "if someone is disloyal then someone is foolish..", and in order to describe this intended meaning we see the words {matlhHa'lu'chugh} and {Doghlu'} respectively.
Are we serious ?
*HIja'*
qorDu' SaHlu'chugh 'ej matlhlu'chugh vaj wa' tlhIngan ghob potlhqu' The {qorDu' SaHlu'chugh} is correct. But when it comes to the {matlhlu'chugh} then again things make no sense. If the {matlhlu'chugh} is used on its own in order to say "if someone is loyal", then it is wrong. And if the {matlhlu'chugh} refers to the {qorDu'}, then again we have the meaning "if someone cares for his family, and if someone is loyal his family.."
*qorDu' SaHlu'chugh 'ej matlhlu'chugh* /if one cares about family and if one is loyal/
And as if all these weren't enough, when we read past the {vaj} the sentence takes the meaning "then one (or one's) very important klingon virtue" and then period. ?!?!?!
The SkyBox cards have the most errors of all of Okrand's Klingon. He did them pretty early on. For your own sanity, just accept this.
And I will ask again.. Are we serious ? These are the kind of canon sentences which are supposed to help people understand proper klingon ?
The SkyBox cards never had the goal of helping people understand proper Klingon. They were made for /Star Trek/ fans. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name