Am 20.09.2016 um 08:24 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
Thinking this over today with a clear mind, I continue being unable to grasp how {vay'} is definite while {-lu'} is abstract. Both refer to an unknown person. Unknown, by definition, is abstract and indefinite..
I know it'S hard to understand, as these are very close to each other. Maybe some more examples can clarify. A person rings at the door. You do not know who it is, but you know there is someobody, so it's not indefinite. {wab chenmoH vay'} There are some people in the room who hear the sound of the bell. You can say {wab luQoy} "they hear the sound", but in a way of storytelling you can say {wab Qoylu'} "One hears the sound" or "a sound can be heard". One othor, more frequently used form is the expression {tu'lu'}, usually tanslated as "there is". Literally it means "one [indefinite] discovers" - it does not mean that somebody does discover things: {tlhInganpu' tu'lu'} "there are Klingons here" = "a not specified, generel person does discover Klingons" = "one can find Klingons here" {tlhInganpu' tu' vay'} "somebody, a real, existing person, discovers Klingons" (you could give that person a name if you know him) Hope this helps a bit. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/ThereIs