On 9/28/2020 6:44 AM, Luis Chaparro Caballero wrote:
1. I have always thought that SAOs work as a "two-sentence-construction" (TKD 6.2.5). But then, is there any difference between these two sentences? Does the punctuation make a difference in Klingon? paq Daje'pu' 'e' vISov. paq Daje'pu'. 'e' vISov.
/The Klingon Dictionary/ and subsequent sources do not specify any kind of punctuation requirements. They're entirely discretionary. These two sentences are effectively identical.
2. In this list I've also seen that when we use a period it's possible not to use "'e'": paq Daje'pu'. vISov. Without "'e'" it's actually ambiguous: "vISov" can refer to "paq" or to the whole sentence.
Ehhhh.... Technically, this may true, but it would be as awkward to say this as it is in English to say /You bought the book, I know it. /While *'e'* is indeed a pronoun, I think it's taking the "may drop a pronoun" rule a little too far. Its presence is essential.
So we can make it clear if we use pronouns, right?: paq Daje'pu'. 'oH vISov. (I know the book). paq Daje'pu'. 'e' vISov. (I know that you have bought the book).
I would probably assume that the *'oH* does refer to the book, as you suggest.
Pronouns help us to make it clear. But what if the sentence is not ambiguous? What would be the difference between the following three possibilities? bIlaDtaH 'e' vISov. bIlaDtaH. 'e' vISov. bIlaDtaH. vISov.
No difference between the first two because punctuation is not a "rule" in Klingon. The third is awkward as I explained above.
In TKD 5.1 we can read pronouns can be used for emphasis or added clarity. Maybe the difference between the last two sentences is only that "'e' vISov" is emphatic ("I know THAT")?
No, explicitly using *'e'* is standard; it doesn't add any kind of emphasis or clarity. This is a good reason to think it can't be dropped like other pronouns.
Anyway: What is the difference between using a pronoun for emphasis and using the topic marker "-'e'"?
When you explicitly use a pronoun, you're making it clear that that's the pronoun you have in mind, or you're speaking extra-clearly to make sure you've been heard. If I say *HoD Duj vIlegh*/I see the captain's ship/ and then follow it up with *vIghov,* am I saying I recognize the captain or the ship? I can clarify by explicitly using a pronoun: *ghaH vIghov*/I recognize him/her/ or *'oH vIghov*/I recognize it./ When you use *-'e',* you're giving the noun grammatical focus: you're giving it an exclusive status. This noun, and no other, is the one I'm talking about. *HoD'e' vIghom*/I meet the CAPTAIN (not someone else)./ Note that this is different than when you use *-'e'* as a topic marker in pronoun-as-to-be sentences. *nuch ghaH Sogh'e'*/The lieutenant is a coward./ When used here, the meaning of *-'e'* isn't exclusivity, it's topic: /As for the lieutenant, he is a coward./ The topic of the sentence is the lieutenant, and what do we want to say about the lieutenant? He or she is a coward.
3. And what if the first sentence is intended to be the subject of the second one? paq Daje'pu'. QaQ.
I would assume that the elided subject of *QaQ* is *paq.* You cannot have a sentence act as subject. This pair of sentences cannot mean /Your buying the book was good./ Another reason to think that you can't elide *'e'* as object.
4. And if a sentece is not ambiguous, and my assumption that pronouns can be used for emphasis is right, how can we get the meaning "THAT is good" (emphasis) if we have no pronoun that refers to a sentence and can be used as subject?: bIlaDtaH. QaQ. So maybe we need a noun with "-'e'"?: bIlaDtaH. QaQ ngoDvam'e'.
You're on the right track. I'd probably use *wanI'* for this: *bIlaDtaH. QaQ wanI'vam'e'.*/You are reading. THAT (and not something else) is good./ But these are definitely two separate sentences in Klingon.
5. Anyway, is this possibility right?: QaQ. paq Daje'pu'. (That's good. You have bought the book).
Not correct, for the reasons above. You don't want *QaQ* here, you want the exclamation *maj.* *maj! paq Daje'pu'.*/Good! You have bought the book./ -- SuStel http://trimboli.name