On 9/19/2016 12:18 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
SuStel:
But I can tell you that -lu' does not mean "someone does something to someone." It means "someone or something unspecified or abstract does something." Maybe it's done to something, maybe not. This confuses me greatly;
I read again section 4.2.5. of tkd, and yes the first thing it says is "This suffix is used to indicate that the subject is unknown, indefinite, and/or general".
On the other hand though, immediately it continues by saying: "Since the subject is always the same (that is, it is always unstated), the pronominal prefixes (section 4.1.1) are used in a different way". And proceeds by giving examples of the kind "someone/something does something to someone/something".
Even the example {Soplu'} is given as "it is eaten". Of course it could be also taken as "someone eats it"; but, how can someone write {Soplu'} in order to say "someone eats (period)" ?
If I wrote *Sop HoD,* does it mean /the captain eats/ or /the captain eats it?/ It means both! You know that. So why should it trouble you that *Soplu'* means both /one eats/ and /one eats it?/
Perhaps you will answer by saying "even if you say someone eats (period), then again *that* someone is eating something so we essentially say the same thing".
ok.. perhaps I can see your point; but my problem is that the tkd does not have a single example like {yItlu'} for "someone is walking", or {neplu'} for "someone is lying" etc. So, how can we accept such a usage of {-lu'} ?
How about *quSDaq ba'lu''a'*/Is this seat taken?/ in the appendix?
SuStel:
The difference is that vay' indicates a definite "someone," while -lu' might be used when that someone is more abstract I can't understand this either; how is {lu'} abstract and {vay'} definite ? Both mean someone. Someone unknown/unspecified. I can't see any difference between them. *vay'* is a subject; *-lu'* is just the lack of a subject.*-lu'* means "Obviously something or someone does this action, but I'm not gonna say what it is."
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name