Known examples of {Sal} “ascend” and {ghIr} “descend”, all from the paq’batlh: SaqSub'e' muSHa'bogh pawmeH leng qeylIS, HuDmey Sal ghIq ghIr And Kahless traveled to his beloved Saq'sub, over the mountains (PB) QIStaq 'emDaq jenchoH jul, yor DungDaq Salta'DI' tagh HarghchuqmeH poH The sun rises high behind the Kri'stak, when it rises over its top, it is time to do battle. (PB) HuDmeyvo' ghIr chaH Over the hills, they came. (PB) From these three examples – all referring to mountains or hills - it appears that the locative suffix is optional. --Voragh From: mayqel qunenoS Is {Sal} (v) "ascend", to be treated as the verbs of movement ? If I'm on earth and begin ascending to the sky, what do I say ? {chal vIlSal} or {chalDaq jISal} ? ~ mayqel *I love maltz* qunen'oS