Both {qorDu'wI'} and {qorDu'lI'} also appear in the paq'batlh, as well as {qorDu'wIj}. A difference I notice is that {-wI'} and {-lI'} are used for the living (or those who can conceivably be rescued from Gre'thor), and {-wIj} is used for those who are certainly dead, or possibly for speaking of family in a general way that includes the dead as well as the living. The capable-of-speech examples: batlh Hegh qorDu'lI' (from paq'yav Canto 3) ghe'torDaq lengbe'meH qorDu'wI' vIQan (from paq'yav Canto 12) In the first of these, Molor's envoy clearly speaks to Morath of his living kin, since only the living can die. In the second, Kahless intends to rescue his kin from Gre'thor, so he hasn't given them up for dead. The incapable-of-speech examples: qorDu'wIj quvmo' jImaghpu' qorDu'wIj quvqa'moHlu'meH jIvang vIneH (from paq'raD Canto 16) qotar vImuv qorDu'wIj vImuv (from paq'QIH Canto 2) In the first example, although Kahless is trying to rescue his family from Gre'thor, he speaks of "my family" in perhaps a general way ("my family honor") that could include all of his kin who have ever lived. In the second, he goes to join his dead relatives. And nothing to do with canon, but I recently noticed that I instinctively used {qorDu'wI'} for my own immediate family, perhaps since they are so obviously capable of speech. ~mIp'av