[tlhIngan Hol] Whether

[SuStel]

On 6/11/2024 12:24 PM, De'vID wrote:
> I think it's different because the object of {SIv} is something the 
> subject is wondering about (and thus may or may not be true), whereas 
> the object of {Sov} is something that the subject knows (or doesn't 
> know, in the case of {Sovbe'}) and should be a fact.

But in the case of *chabwIj nIHpu' Mike 'e' vISovbe'* you're supposing 
that *chabwIj nIHpu' Mike* is a statement of fact, while with *tlhIngan 
Hol Dajatlh 'e' vISIv* you're supposing that *tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh* is a 
hypothetical.

I put it to you that Klingon doesn't actually distinguish whether the 
first sentence of a sentence-as-object is indicative or subjunctive. 
English makes the distinction with the /if/ or /whether/ or /that,/ but 
Klingon does no such thing. So if you're someone who doesn't know 
whether Mike stole your pie, you have clear context to say *chabwIj 
nIHpu' Mike 'e' vISovbe',* and it'll be interpreted as a subjunctive 
clause, meaning /I don't know whether Mike stole my pie./

We see this sort of thing in canon a lot. For instance, when Klaa says 
*«qIrq vIjeylaHchugh,» *Vixis responds *«qIbDaq SuvwI''e' SoH Duj law' 
Hoch Dun puS.»* Vixis's statement is subjunctive in context, but it's 
not /marked/ as subjunctive in any way. She's not saying Klaa /is/ the 
greatest warrior in the galaxy; she's saying he /would be/ the greatest 
warrior in the galaxy /if/ he could defeat Kirk.

So I see no problem with saying *chabwIj nIHpu' Mike 'e' vISovbe'.* I'm 
taking the statement *chabwIj nIHpu' Mike,* never mind whether it's a 
fact or not, and saying that I do not know it. If the context were "Hey, 
did you hear that Mike stole your pie?" it would be interpreted as "No, 
I didn't know that Mike stole my pie." If the context were "Hey, has 
Mike stolen your pie?" it would be interpreted as "I don't know whether 
Mike stole my pie."

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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