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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/11/2024 12:24 PM, De'vID wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CA+7zAmMxGHbGX=uXLV1dGMqZEonOSW_rkfpJabNN-iH7+mxiEA@mail.gmail.com">I
think it's different because the object of {SIv} is something the
subject is wondering about (and thus may or may not be true),
whereas the object of {Sov} is something that the subject knows
(or doesn't know, in the case of {Sovbe'}) and should be a fact.</blockquote>
<p>But in the case of <b>chabwIj nIHpu' Mike 'e' vISovbe'</b>
you're supposing that <b>chabwIj nIHpu' Mike</b> is a statement
of fact, while with <b>tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh 'e' vISIv</b> you're
supposing that <b>tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh</b> is a hypothetical.</p>
<p>I put it to you that Klingon doesn't actually distinguish whether
the first sentence of a sentence-as-object is indicative or
subjunctive. English makes the distinction with the <i>if</i> or
<i>whether</i> or <i>that,</i> but Klingon does no such thing. So
if you're someone who doesn't know whether Mike stole your pie,
you have clear context to say <b>chabwIj nIHpu' Mike 'e'
vISovbe',</b> and it'll be interpreted as a subjunctive clause,
meaning <i>I don't know whether Mike stole my pie.</i></p>
<p>We see this sort of thing in canon a lot. For instance, when Klaa
says <b>«qIrq vIjeylaHchugh,» </b>Vixis responds <b>«qIbDaq
SuvwI''e' SoH Duj law' Hoch Dun puS.»</b> Vixis's statement is
subjunctive in context, but it's not <i>marked</i> as subjunctive
in any way. She's not saying Klaa <i>is</i> the greatest warrior
in the galaxy; she's saying he <i>would be</i> the greatest
warrior in the galaxy <i>if</i> he could defeat Kirk.</p>
<p>So I see no problem with saying <b>chabwIj nIHpu' Mike 'e'
vISovbe'.</b> I'm taking the statement <b>chabwIj nIHpu' Mike,</b>
never mind whether it's a fact or not, and saying that I do not
know it. If the context were "Hey, did you hear that Mike stole
your pie?" it would be interpreted as "No, I didn't know that Mike
stole my pie." If the context were "Hey, has Mike stolen your
pie?" it would be interpreted as "I don't know whether Mike stole
my pie."<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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