[tlhIngan Hol] placement of adverb

[De'vID]

On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 2:57 PM Will Martin via tlhIngan-Hol <
tlhingan-hol at lists.kli.org> wrote:

> Ahh. The rare advantage of being ancient…
>
> I have HolQeD v1n2.
>
> There, From the Grammarian’s Desk (by Captain Krankor, it says [and I’m
> adding curly brackets around the Klingon text — he used bold font, and I
> omit so this won’t be rejected for being too long]:
>

maj! Qu'vaD lI' net tu'bej!


>
> ***
> Greetings from the Empire…
>
> …This issue’s column will focus on the adverbials and the mystical,
> magical pronoun {‘e’}. Consider the following English sentence: “I never
> saw the captain hit the officer.” How would you render this in Klingon?
>
> The first attempt might well be this:
>
> {not yaS qIppu’ HoD ‘e’ vIlegh}
>
> However, this would be very liable to be interpreted as “I saw the captain
> never hit the officer: — not quite the same thing. It seems that we want to
> somehow get that {not} adverbial together with the {legh} verb. Yet we know
> that, for the most part, adverbials are supposed to go at the beginning of
> sentences, aren’t they?
>
> … The correct translation is:
>
> {yaS qIppu’ HoD not ‘e’ vIlegh}
>
> … In describing the {‘e’} sentence construction, the dictionary has this
> to say:
>
> “Klingon has two special pronouns, {‘e’} and {net}, which refer to the
> previous sentence as a whole. …They are always treated as the object of the
> verb. …What is a single sentence in English is often /two/ sentences in
> Klingon.
>
> … one can fall into the pit of starting to think of that little {‘e’} as a
> kind of conjunction, but remember, it is not: It is a pronoun, the object
> of the verb, and the sentences that use this construction are not sentences
> at all, they are /pairs/ of sentences.
>

What is the page number where the above is found?


> ***
>
> His other example in the article is {chay’ veSDuj’a’ vIghajlaH DaH ‘e’
> boyajchoH}. “Now you are all beginning to understand how I am able to own a
> great warship."
>
>
Was this Okrand's example? I believe he was asked about this (or a similar)
sentence and said that {chay'} is only a question word, and doesn't act
like a relative pronoun (meaning something like "the way in which...").


> He also suggests that it’s okay (as we later learned from the script of a
> later movie) to use the {‘e’} to refer to something that was just said by a
> different person.
>
> ****
> Crewman: {vavwI’ ghaH ‘aj’e’}  "The admiral is my father”
>
> Captain: {‘e’ vISovbe’} “I didn’t know that"
> ****
>

Again, what was the page number where this is found?


>
> I’m happy to transcribe or scan or whatever the entire HolQeD v1n2 if
> someone has the tech suggestion as to how to get around text length limits
> on the mailing list.
>

qurgh is actually coordinating the digitisation of HolQeD. Maybe you should
get in touch with him.


>
> pItlh
>
> charghwI’ ‘utlh
> (ghaH, ghaH, -Daj)
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2023, at 8:07 AM, Lieven L. Litaer via tlhIngan-Hol <
> tlhingan-hol at lists.kli.org> wrote:
> ...That is indeed an interesting thing to research.
>
> I don't have v1n2, but I checked v2n1 and v2n2: It does not have
> anything regarding the above topic.
>
> Also, I doubt that the above phrase is a canon example, because we have
> a quite complete corpus of canon phrases today. The search at Klingonska
> (and also Google) does not give any response for that phrase.
>
> It's difficult to search for that quickly. If it's a typo, it could be
> anything.
>
> --
> Lieven L. Litaer
> aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany"
> http://www.tlhInganHol.com
> http://klingon.wiki/En/HolQeD
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>
>
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>


-- 
De'vID
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