[tlhIngan Hol] info from paq'batlh that's not really new

De'vID de.vid.jonpin at gmail.com
Fri Jun 24 05:14:13 PDT 2022

On Fri, 24 Jun 2022 at 13:14, D qunen'oS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:

> paq'batlh:
> > {qatlh Sutamchu' tlhIH / SuvwI'pu' Hem boghIjlu''a' / tlhIH je qanra'
> puqloD pejatlh}
> > "Why are you all silent? / You, proud warriors, are you afraid? / And
> you, sons of Kahnrah, speak up!"
> De'vID:
> > This usage of {je} is implicitly conjoining two nouns, namely {tlhIH}
> (referring to {SuvwI'pu' Hem}), and {tlhIH}
> > (referring to {qanra' puqloD}).  It's a bit complicated but It mirrors
> the English "you... and you", with other
> > things in between.
> So, this means that in the {tlhIH je qanra' puqloD pejatlh} there's an
> elided {tlhIH} before the {tlhIH} which is written.

Look again. It's not elided. Both of the conjoined nouns are written.

{qatlh Sutamchu'?} "Why are you all silent?"
{tlhIH(1), SuvwI'pu' Hem,} "You, proud warriors,"
{boghIjlu''a'?} "Are you afraid?"
{tlhIH(2) je, qanra' puqloD,} "And you, sons of Kahnrah,"
{pejatlh!} "Speak up!"

The conjunction {je} joins {tlhIH(1)} and {tlhIH(2)}. Each of the {tlhIH}s
is in apposition with its referent.

It's a vocative, {tlhIH, tlhIH je} "You... and you", with other things in
between. Kahless is speaking both to a group of warriors and specifically
to the sons of Kahnrah. He says "you" (addressing the warriors) and says
something, then turns (or narrows his attention) to the sons of Kahnrah,
and says "and you" (addressing them) and says something.

This mirrors the English version, which does the same thing.

> And so this means, that (from now on) we *can* use the conjunction {je}
> "and" after just one noun, as long as the elided one is clear from context.

No, you can't (or at least there's no evidence that you can). The issue was
specifically whether *{tlhIH je} shows that {je} can follow a single noun.
But that's not what's happening here. It's conjoining two nouns, as usual.
It's just that there are other things in between.

It's exactly like saying, "You, Alice, go pick up the pizza. And you, Bob,
go get the drinks." You can't say "And you (Bob)" by itself, without the
first "You (Alice)".

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