[tlhIngan Hol] {ngIq} again

Iikka Hauhio fergusq at protonmail.com
Mon Jun 13 12:20:55 PDT 2022

Is it possible to use Hoch after a countable singular noun? Like chab Hoch vISop I eat the whole cake (I've seen some use naQ, but I've understood that it is wrong, as the cake is "whole" before I eat it regardless of whether I eat all of it or just a part).

Iikka "fergusq" Hauhio
------- Original Message -------
On Monday, June 13th, 2022 at 20.26, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin at gmail.com> wrote:

> Le lun. 13 juin 2022 à 18:11, Ed Bailey <bellerophon.modeler at gmail.com> a écrit :
>> {ngIq X} was previously described as inherently plural* (i.e., grammatically singular but plural in meaning). Obviously it doesn't have to be plural in meaning, since {ngIq tonSaw lo'} in PB refers to only one move, so people's notes may need revision.
> In the same article that I think you're referring to (in the qepHom'a' 2017 booklet) where {ngIq X} was described as "inherently plural", it's also explained how {ngIq tonSaw'} could be translated as "a single move". I think the way it's written there is a bit confusing, and it just meant that {wI-} (and not {DI-}) is the correct prefix in {ngIq mIch wIHotlh} despite the fact that the meaning of the sentence is that multiple sectors are scanned. (It was specific to those examples where the sentence applied to multiple things, and "since it refers to more than one X" really means "when it refers to more than one X") There's no new information in what I wrote.
>> Another thing you've made me reconsider: I have definitely used both {ngIq} and {Hoch} following a plural noun, and while intelligible, it may have been totally unidiomatic usage.
> I don't think this works. Dr. Okrand considered {Qapla'meywIj Hoch}, which appeared in the first edition of the paq'batlh, to have been a mistake. {Hoch} following an uncountable noun means "all of X", as in {nIn Hoch}. See my post "{Hoch} before and after a noun" about this.
> --
> De'vID
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