[tlhIngan Hol] {net X} vs. {'e' Xlu'}

De'vID de.vid.jonpin at gmail.com
Fri Jun 10 23:58:18 PDT 2022

On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 at 06:48, D qunen'oS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:

> Does this mean we can construct similar sentences ourselves (i.e. Xlu' 'e'
> Ylu'), when the indefinite subject is the same?

TKD 6.2.5 says: <When the verb of the second sentence has a third-person
subject (that is, the pronominal prefix is 0) but the intended meaning is
"one" or "someone", rather than "he", "she", "it", or "they", {net} is used
instead of {'e'}.>

What it's saying here is that using {net} instead of {'e'} is done in a
particular situation, but it doesn't say that it's necessarily always done
in this situation. Remember the introduction to TKD: <The grammatical
sketch is intended to be an outline of Klingon grammar, not a complete

We've known for a long time that {'e' Xlu'} was possible based on TKW. Some
people thought this was an error. This latest information just tells us
what's going on.

Or is all this just an explanation 'oqranD gave for some "special cases",
> meaning that we (still) shouldn't write this way?

These are the examples we have of {'e' Xlu'}. The first two are from TKW
and the third is from Klingon Monopoly.

yay chavlu' 'e' bajnISlu'. - The victory must be earned by the one who
achieves it.
yInlu'taH 'e' bajnISlu'. - The survival must be earned by the one who
DIvI' rojmab qep ghanglu' 'e' nIDlu', 'ach taH qep. - One tries to end the
peace talks. (This can't be interpreted as someone trying to get someone
else to end the peace talks. The trier is the ender.)

What the latest information says is that these sentences are part of a
larger pattern that includes these:

batlhHa' vanglu'taHvIS quv chavbe'lu'. - The one who acts dishonourably is
the one who does not achieve honour.
Heghlu'DI' mobbe'lu'chugh QaQqu' Hegh wanI'. - The one who dies is the one
who is not alone.
noH QapmeH wo' Qaw'lu'chugh yay chavbe'lu' 'ej wo' choqmeH may' DoHlu'chugh
lujbe'lu'. - The one who destroys an empire is the one who doesn't achieve
victory, the one who retreats is the one who doesn't lose.
pujwI' HIvlu'chugh quvbe'lu'. - If one attacks the weak, the same one does
not achieve honour.
'oy'be'lu'chugh Qapbe'lu'. - One does not succeed if the same one does not
experience pain.

So the sentences with {'e' Xlu'} were not a mistake (i.e., cases where Dr.
Okrand forgot about {net}), but were written that way for a reason, one
which we had suspected but hadn't confirmed. {'e' Xlu'} differs in meaning
from {net X} and would be used in some circumstances.

If one imagines writing {HoHlu' 'e' jallu'chugh}, it would mean "if one
imagines that one were killed" (which means something like "if you, the
listener, were killed"), whereas {HoHlu' net jalchugh} would mean "if one
imagines that someone (possibly someone else) were killed".

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