[tlhIngan Hol] using {ngan} as a suffix {ngan} as the suffix {-ngan}

[SuStel]

On 1/26/2022 4:31 PM, Iikka Hauhio wrote:
> So if I interpret you correctly, you argue that Klingons themselves 
> label some compounds as lexicalized as some as not, on a basis unknown 
> to us. Then Okrand depicts this fictional lexicalization with the spaces.

I'm not going to repeat myself on the difference between native grammar 
and convention. You're not understanding the distinction.


> Outside the fiction of Klingon, I argue that all canon compounds 
> (spaces or no spaces) in TKD, KGT and other dictionary listings are 
> lexicalized, unless explicitly stated by Okrand that they are not. 
> Spaces are not useful in this regard.

You and I use Klingon entirely outside of the fiction of Klingon, but we 
pretend that we have a bridge to the inside, and we get all our 
information about Klingon from across that bridge and only from across 
that bridge. If we didn't, then there would be no reason at all to care 
about what Okrand says about Klingon, and we could all just make up 
whatever words and rules we liked. But we're NOT inside that fiction 
ourselves. We can't go to Kronos and meet Klingons; we can't make a 
subspace call to a Klingon planet; we can't even hope to be invaded by 
Klingons in the future. We have only that little fiction between 
studying an "alien" language and arguing about a semi-joke language that 
some linguist threw together as a novelty.

Even as things are, there are no Klingon Police that will come and 
arrest you if you decide you want to shove nouns together. Go right 
ahead. It would be an interesting test to see if others would tolerate it.


> I'm not promoting any particular alternative punctuation. I'm just 
> saying that the current usage is not consistent and that there are 
> possible ways to write consistently:

If you're expecting to find consistency in Klingon, you're going to be 
sorely disappointed. Much of the fun is in recognizing that we don't 
know and can't predict the answer and trying to figure it out.

You're saying that the current usage is not consistent. I completely 
agree. There are examples of compound nouns I wouldn't expect to be 
compounded, and examples of noun-nouns that I could easily imagine being 
compounded.

You're saying there are possible ways to write consistently. Again, I 
agree. We could make up our own rules to cover all situations. And we 
/do/ have our own rules: we have developed a convention whereby we do 
not invent our own compounds, and any genitive nouns get a space before 
their head nouns; only Okrand can invent compounds. It's not always 
consistent with what Okrand has done, but as you AND Okrand both admit, 
Okrand himself hasn't been consistent.


-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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