[tlhIngan Hol] Perfective with qualities / perfective and perfect

[Iikka Hauhio]

On Tuesday, April 12th, 2022 at 19.27, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:

> On 4/12/2022 12:14 PM, Iikka Hauhio wrote:
>
>> SuStel:
>>
>>> Klingon has no suffix that does this. If I saywa'Hu' DungluQ jISoppu',there is no built-in connotation that I ate before noon yesterday and that the eating is relevant to what happened at noon. All this sentence says is that yesterday at noon, I ate, and it's being described as a completed whole from a viewpoint just after the eating stopped. If I saywa'leS DungluQ jISoppu',I'm saying that eating will happen tomorrow at noon, and it's being described as a completed whole from a viewpoint just after the eating stops.
>>
>> ​
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> However, -pu' can be used to tell that the action has already happened relative to the "current time of narration".
>>
>> jIvem. ram jISoppu', DaH jISopnISbe'. SIbI' yaHwIj vIghoS.
>> I wake up. I ate at night, I don't need to eat now. I go directly to my workplace.
>>
>> I'm telling a story using the no-suffix aspect, but in the middle of the story I describe an event that happened before the current time of narration using the perfective aspect.
>
> Yes, and you have provided the context yourself, just as I explained in the next paragraph that you didn't quote. You did this by starting with a "current time" narrative, then adding a sentence with an explicit time context in the past prior to the current time, then returning to the current time with another explicit time context. You did all this with words that aren't the verbs whose aspect is being examined. Just as I said.
>
> --
> SuStel
> http://trimboli.name

If you remove the perfective aspect, it could mean the following night or habitual night instead of the previous night:

jIvem. ram jISop, DaH jISopnISbe'. SIbI' yaHwIj vIghoS.

I wake up. I eat at night, I don't need to eat now. I go directly to my workplace.

>

My point is that the perfective aspect is used in this kind of sentences, which might be the source of confusion that causes people to think that -pu' means same as "already".

There is even a canon sentence which has the word "already":

bIHeghvIpchugh bIHeghpu'.
If you are afraid to die you have already died.

It's not a literal translation, but might cause some to think that -pu' = already.

Iikka "fergusq" Hauhio
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/attachments/20220412/443018c6/attachment-0016.htm>