[tlhIngan Hol] 'eSpanya' QISmaS (Beginner's text and questions)

De'vID de.vid.jonpin at gmail.com
Mon Nov 22 12:42:13 PST 2021

On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 at 17:44, <luis.chaparro at web.de> wrote:

> tugh qaS QISmaS. jar wa'maH cha' rav jaj javDIch 'aqroS jaj chorghDIch
> 'eSpanya''e' motlh juH lu'IHqu'choHmoHlu'. QISmaS Sor DIghaj, 'ach
> 'eSpanya' lurDech bIHbe'. *Bethlehem* velqa'mey nu' 'oH lurDechmaj'e'. pIj
> vIqraqna' bIH 'ej tInqu'. velqa'vam nu' ghaj je 'op DIvI', malja', chIrgh
> je 'ej SuchlaH nuvpu'.
> jaj cha'maH loSDIch, jaj wejmaH wa'DIch je nItebHa' Sop qorDu'mey, 'eybogh
> 'eSpanya' Soj vItlh luSop. jaj wejmaH wa'DIch pagh rep wa'maH cha' ghIrep
> naH DISop je, baS 'In DIQoy'taHvIS.
> nob Hevba' puqpu'ma', 'ach qembe' *Santa Claus*. qem wej ta' chul. wa' ta'
> wIv Hoch puq. jar wa' jaj vaghDIch Hoch vengDaq puqpu'vaD boghoy Dun
> tu'lu'. qaStaHvIS jajvetlh ram, QongtaHvIS puqpu', nob qem ta'pu'.
> As always, I would appreciate any help / correction in order to improve my
> Klingon. I also have some questions:
> 1. I've discussed in another thread the difference between *'eSpanya'
> QISmaS* and *'eSpanya'ngan QISmaS*. If I've understood it well, I think I
> could use both here with a similar meaning, but I've chosen *'eSpanya'
> QISmaS* because I wanted to present the traditions in the context of the
> country's culture, rather than focusing on the people. Was it right?

It's the difference between "Spain's Christmas", "Christmas of Spain" vs.
"Spanish people's Christmas", "Christmas of Spanish people". I think either
one could've been used here, but if you wanted to emphasise the link to the
country, then your choice does that.

> 2. I wanted to use *'eSpanya''e'* as topic, but then I couldn't decide
> where I should place it. It's a noun with a Type 5 suffix. Time expressions
> come first. So I placed it after the time expression. However, my tendency
> was to say it at the beginning, before the time expression. Would that be
> right / possible?

Star Trek VI had Chancellor Gorkon yell {cheng'e' DaH Sam!} "Find CHANG
now!", so it's at least possible to have the topic fronted before the time

> 3. In */Bethlehem/ velqa'mey nu' 'oH lurDechmaj'e'*, I've decided to use
> *'oH* since the idea is *As for our tradition, IT (the tradition) =
> miniatures of Bethlehem*, but I'm not sure about it.

There is one example of pronoun agreement when the subject and object don't
match, from the paq'batlh 1st edition:
{wa' Dol bIH qa''e' porgh'e' je}

However, Marc Okrand wasn't very happy with this, and in the 2nd edition
this line will be changed to:
{muvchuqtaH qa' porgh je}

So my suggestion is to avoid a "to be" construction where the subject and
object don't agree, if possible.

4. Can we use *Such* with the meaning *to visit the miniatures*? Maybe
> *bej* would be better?

I don't see why not. If you're going from one place to another to look at
something, {Such} seems right.

> 5. Am I telling dates / time correctly? I don't feel very confident with
> this. When should we tell time as hundreds?

{pagh rep} is correct for "midnight" by the military-style "hundreds" time
system used in Conversational Klingon (1992).

There's another way used in "interplanetary communication", which we were
told about in this newsgroup message (1999), in which you use the name of
the planet and number the hours from 1 to 24, so that midnight would be
{tera' rep cha'maH loS} "Earth hour 24":

(This is of course silly as Earth does not have a single timezone, see
e.g., https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TimeZonesDoNotExist and
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UniversalUniverseTime .)

There's yet another way which is used in non-military contexts, and in
which interplanetary communications are not a concern, involving the
expression {N-logh Qoylu'pu'}, which is also explained in the newsgroup
message above.

Based on what we know, Klingons tell time differently depending on whether
the context is military and whether they're communicating with other
planets. But then, it's never wrong to use the military way of doing things
when it comes to Klingons, so what you used is probably fine.

6. Is it possible to say something like *jar wa' jaj vaghDIch ram* for *the
> night of January 5th*?

That's how I would say it.

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