[tlhIngan Hol] meaning of an {x-mo' verb-be'} sentence

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Sun Jan 12 11:39:30 PST 2020

On 1/12/2020 2:02 PM, Will Martin wrote:
> meqlIj? meqlIj vInoHbe’. I know that I do not understand other 
> people’s motives. I do note their apparent priorities. That’s very 
> much not the same thing.

Semantic backpedaling.

> I’m frequently surprised by how often others presume to understand MY 
> motives.

I don't understand your motives. They're bizarre.

> I’m saying this in English because I have little enough faith that it 
> can be communicated well to you and mayqel in English and far less 
> faith that you can handle that subtlety of intent in Klingon.

bItlhaQqu'! choHagh 'e' yImev; jItaHlaHbe'! /Subtle?/ SoH?! SommI' 
jejHa' rur Hol laHlIj.

> Ironically, I’ve tried to talk about how important Klingon cultural 
> context is in understanding expressions, and I forgot about the 
> cultural context of this list. In this list, the cultural context is 
> that I’m expected to be a jerk with evil motives, so whatever I say 
> gets that baggage added to it, whether it deserves it or not. It’s 
> just assumed.

bImIghbe'ba'. bIvIngbej. bIlachbej. bIlaDHa'bej. 'ach bImIghbe'.

> A motive is a “why”. A priority is a “what”. They are quite different 
> in character.

Well then stop judging people's priorities.

>>> I presume nothing about what you intended to poorly communicate.
>> "If he’s saying that he dodged a bullet, then perhaps his focus on 
>> being concise has trumped his interest in being understood."
>> tlhIngan Hol jatlhlu'taHvIS, chay' /presumption/ jatlhlu'? 
>> mu'tlheghvam Delchu' mu'vam.
>> batlh Qumpu' mayqel. vay' yajchu'be'pu', vaj boQmaj neHpu'.
> Focus is not motive. It’s priority. There’s an option to be concise. 
> There’s an option to be comprehensively understood. He appeared to 
> lean in toward being concise.

Excuse me, sir. You appear to be sitting in a pile of cow manure.

He tried to make a sentence. He asked if he got it right. He wasn't 
trying to be especially concise; he was asking if it would be 
understood. That's it. He didn't ask you to turn into a Klingon, 
transport him to the Homeworld, and ask the nearby Klingons to 
psychoanalyze him. And when you tried to do exactly this, with the 
backing of the suggestions I offered, I objected to the accuracy of the 

> None of this has anything to do with motives. You and he seem 
> remarkably drawn toward wanting to talk about motives. If that trend 
> has a motive behind it, I honestly don’t understand it. I prefer to 
> assume that a person understands their own motives better than I do, 
> so I try not to comment on it, unless it really gets in the way of 
> communication to avoid the topic.
> My motive is that I want to play. You guys seem to want to argue and 
> insult. I have no idea why.

You see? You're doing it again.

You're the one who started this, stating that you knew full well that 
you were starting an argument.

> Great question, very similar to your {jISaHbe’}, quickly followed by 
> insisting that I answer some question you had next to {jISaHbe’} that 
> I didn’t bother with because, hey, you don’t care, right? Why ask a 
> question about something you don’t care about, and then get huffy 
> about not getting an answer?

You sent a message to the list saying that today you were a Klingon, and 
stuff about Marc Okrand being right over you. So I engaged you in your 
premise and responded as a Klingon. Just as the Klingon in /Power 
Klingon/ answers the Terran opening a conversation with talk about the 
weather, you opened a conversation by talking about Okrand's superior 
canonicity. This didn't seem to be relevant to anything, so I answered 
the same was as the Klingon in PK: I don't care. Whaddyawant? State your 
business. And you didn't do that. You complained that I'd answered you: 
if I didn't care, why did I answer? Just like the bumbling Terran who 
asked, "Why did you say you don't care?"

You utterly failed to behave like a Klingon. You didn't make your 
business known, and when told to do so in the usual Klingon manner, you 
failed to correct your mistake. You deserve to be blasted with a 
disruptor. In your pretend Klingon world, of course.


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