[tlhIngan Hol] Suffix-number questions in the KLCP test

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Mon Nov 25 13:59:08 PST 2019

On 11/25/2019 4:35 PM, Will Martin wrote:
> I think there’s plenty of disrespect in this entire discussion. I 
> don’t believe that I have more of it than you do. I doubt you would 
> have as much interest in defending the complaint if I weren’t the one 
> commenting on it.
> We both know that you are predisposed to objecting to pretty much 
> anything I say, especially if you can lecture me about it. No sense 
> pretending it isn’t personal.

Until you commented on it, I didn't feel a /need/ to defend the 
complaint. It's not because it's you; it's because what you posted was 
uncalled for and not deserved.

> The maker of the test is welcome to review the materials and decide 
> whether there is merit in changing them. 

An action they would not be prompted to do if there were not someone 
pointing out possible improvements.

> Having put sincere effort into making the test fair and useful, they 
> don’t owe anybody urgency to making changes. They have lives of their 
> own and any effort put into updating the test is voluntary.

Nobody asked anybody to urgently attend to their own needs. The original 
posted asked for the KLI to "think about changing these questions" or to 
explain "why they have to be like they are." This is not unreasonable.

I don't think the egos of the test designers are so fragile that they 
need you to suppress alternative viewpoints.

> The work they’ve already done does deserve more respect than this 
> discussion has been offering. I make that point again, since I am the 
> only person expressing it so far, and I am 100% certain that this 
> point is not to be ignored.

When someone says, hey, I learned Klingon a different way than you, and 
the test you're offering tests on things you learned, not me, so can you 
think about changing the test or explaining your reasoning, that's not 

When someone says, if you're so naturally good at Klingon why don't you 
go make up your own tests instead of criticizing this one, that's 
disrespectful. Writing a wall of text that lists, annotated by number, 
all the things someone is doing wrong is disrespectful.

> If you can teach the language so well without numbering the suffixes, 
> make your own test and share it with others to see how universally 
> helpful it is in teaching the language to others and improving their 
> skills with it. Anyone, myself included, would welcome your 
> contribution to the community. I’m sure that better tests could exist. 
> They just need someone to put in the time and skill to make them.
> Until someone else does that, this test will do fine.

Others /have/ done that. Duolingo has done it. They don't teach the 
suffix numbers; they introduce the suffixes differently. And then people 
who have tried to learn Klingon come to the KLI, the central hub of all 
Klingonists, and try to take the test that the KLI offers that basically 
says, if you want to prove yourself, you need to pass this test. And 
they discover it tests things they haven't learned. It's not 
unreasonable to ask the KLI to reconsider its testing.


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