[tlhIngan Hol] using {chol}

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Fri Jun 14 06:13:21 PDT 2019


On 6/14/2019 3:52 AM, Rhona Fenwick wrote:
> With all due respect to SuStel, his suggested parallel with *Sum* or 
> *Hop* doesn't hold water, because these verbs are canonically 
> adjectival and so they can't take objects in any case:

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not suggesting that we look at *Sum* 
and mimic its grammar. I've given the principle by which I think it 
works and pointing to *Sum* to illustrate something similar.

The principle is this: *-Daq* tells you the location at which the verb 
occurs, not, in this case, the destination of the action. When we think 
of coming closer, we tend to think in terms of being the moving entity 
heading toward the destination. I'm suggesting that we may have that 
backwards: we should think in terms of being the stationary entity, 
watching the moving entity coming closer to us.

Let's get away from /you/ and /me,/ as this may skew our perceptions. 
Let's talk about a ship getting closer to a planet. The moving entity is 
the ship, so it is the subject of *chol.* If I say *yuQDaq chol Duj,* we 
can interpret that in one of two ways. We can consider *yuQDaq* to be 
the destination — a reading I'm rejecting here — or we can consider 
*yuQDaq* the place at which *chol* is occurring. We're at the planet, 
watching the ship come closer to us. /At the planet, the ship comes closer./

The reason I bring up *Sum* is because it works much the same way. 
*yuQDaq Sum Duj*/The ship is near the planet; At the planet, the ship is 
nearby./ This has nothing to do with whether either verb can take an 
object; it's purely about the locative viewpoint of the sentence. The 
location of the action is not with the subject; it's with the locative.

So we can do this with first- and second-person pronouns too. *SoHDaq 
jIchol*/I get closer to you./ The *SoHDaq* is not saying that I'm coming 
closer, heading to you/. /It's saying that from where you are, I'm 
coming closer. This is where the canonical use of *Sum* is useful, 
because we have *SoHDaq Sum raS,* where *SoHDaq* "throws the orientation 
away from the speaker (unmarked, unstated) and to the listener (marked, 
stated: "at you, where you are"). /From where you are, the table is 
nearby./*SoHDaq jIchol*/From where you are, I come closer./

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name

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