[tlhIngan Hol] Order of adverbials and type-5'ed nouns

[SuStel]

On 7/9/2019 9:29 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
>
> First goes the {'Iv}/{chay'}/{nuq} etc, if it's a question.
>
>
> Then the time stamp.
>
No, first comes the time element.

*'Iv* and *nuq* — and by extension, *nuqDaq* — go in the sentence where 
the answer would be. It's only *chay', ghorgh,* and *qatlh* that go at 
the front. And what counts as "front" depends on exactly how complex a 
sentence Okrand was thinking of when he made the rule.


> Then assume we have an adverbial and a type-5'ed noun.
>
>
> Does the adverbial *have* to precede the type-5'ed noun ? Or does the 
> type-5'ed noun *have* to precede the adverbial ?
>
>
> I think, there is no *definite* answer on this matter, and that it 
> comes down to personal preference.
>
>
> Is this correct, or is there indeed a *definite* answer on the matter ?
>
TKD doesn't make it clear which words have precedence for the beginning 
of the sentence. Section 5.4: adverbials "usually come at the beginning 
of a sentence." Section 6.1: any noun in the sentence other than subject 
or object comes "before the object noun." Section 6.4: those three 
question words "occur at the beginning of the sentence." Addendum 
section 6.7: time elements come before adverbials. Time elements are 
only described as the most common sort of element to precede an 
adverbial, so it's possible that other elements can too, though I 
couldn't tell you what they might be.

Canon doesn't appear to be too overly concerned with carefully ordering 
these elements. I can't offhand think of any notable exceptions to the 
general rules, but I'm sure there are some interesting bits out there to 
find. The trouble is that some of the best stuff is poetic in nature, 
making word order suspect.

In general, I go by this formula:

<time elements> <adverbials and syntactic noun phrases> <objects> <verb> 
<subjects>

Adverbials tend to float toward the front of the "adverbials and 
syntactic noun phrases" part of their space, though I don't think this 
is an absolute. If you always put adverbials before syntactic noun 
phrases I don't think you'd have any trouble. The three "beginning of 
the sentence" question words are essentially adverbial in nature, and 
should be counted as adverbials for the purpose of sentence order.

So no, there are no definite answers, but there are some hints and trends.

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name

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