[tlhIngan Hol] Placement of the qatlh

[SuStel]

On 2/18/2019 10:36 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
> Am 18.02.2019 um 16:22 schrieb SuStel:
>>> There's a difference between "I ask why I was chosen." and "I ask: 
>>> why was I chosen?"
>>
>> Not in Klingon. Much has been made of "direct quotations" by certain 
>> people, but Klingon happily uses so-called direct quotations where 
>> English will use so-called "indirect quotations."
>
> What I mean is when I write "I tell you why I ate the pie" it means 
> that I am going to tell you the reason for eating the pie. If I write 
> "I tell you 'why I ate the pie'" it only means that I'm going to speak 
> the words "why I ate the pie".

What you're describing is in English performed with a relative pronoun. 
That's not what happens when you say *jIjatlh qatlh vIwIvlu'pu'.* It 
means /I ask why I was chosen,/ not /I say why I was chosen./ The latter 
would require a relative pronoun, which Klingon doesn't have. The former 
is simply reported speech: /I say, "Why was I chosen?"/ It means exactly 
the same as /I ask why I was chosen./ In Klingon both of those sentences 
are translated into *jIjatlh qatlh vIwIvlu'pu'.* (You might add a 
*jIghel* somewhere nearby to make clear that a question is asked, but 
it's pretty clear from the reported speech.)


> So you would agree if I say things like
>
> {qatlh HoD HoH 'e' vISov}
> "I know why he killed the captain"

No, this is a relative pronoun in English and cannot be translated this 
way in Klingon.


> or avoiding the QAO-Problem:
>
> {qatlh HoD HoH jIja'}
> "I tell why he killed the captain."

No. You didn't /tell/ anything here; you asked a question. If you had 
said *qatlh HoD HoHpu' jIjatlh,* I'd understand this as /I ask why he 
killed the captain./ It's no different in meaning from /I say, "Why did 
he kill the captain?"/ (Notice that the perfective is required, because 
the killing is completed.)


> {chay' Duj chenmoHlu' 'e' vISov}
> "I know how the ship is constructed."

No. This is a relative pronoun in English, and cannot be translated this 
way in Klingon.


> PS: I'm really just talking about an interesting topic. No offense 
> intended.

None taken; I also think it's interesting.


-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name

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