[tlhIngan Hol] Is {Sal} a verb of movement ?

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Tue Feb 12 07:06:15 PST 2019

On 2/12/2019 9:37 AM, Will Martin wrote:
> In the interview, Okrand said that adding the {-Daq} WOULD change the 
> meaning. His example was being in a boat on a river. {-Daq} applies to 
> the boat. The object of {ghoS} is the river.

No, he said that adding *-Daq* /to the object/ would not change the 
meaning, only make the sentence redundant. I'm not talking about adding 
a locative with *-Daq* on it before the object.

*Duj vIjaH*/I go to the ship./

*DujDaq vIjaH*/I go to the ship (redundant)./

*DujDaq jIjaH*/While I'm on the ship, I go somewhere (on the ship)./

In the first two, *Duj(Daq)* is the object. In the last one, it is not. 
What Okrand was saying is that when you've got a verb that includes a 
locative notion, the object of that verb is the locative, and any 
locative added before the object cannot duplicate the meaning of the object.

So with *Duj vIjaH,* the object *Duj* indicates the destination /("to" 
the ship.)/ If I say *DujDaq jIjaH,* the *DujDaq *is a locative that 
cannot mean /to the ship,/ because that meaning is inherent in the 
verb's object, but it can mean any of the other possible meanings of 
*-Daq:* /on the ship, in the ship, by the ship, at the ship./ It just 
can't mean /to the ship./


> I don’t remember {jaH} having an object. I’m sure you may be right 
> about that. I simply don’t remember it.

It was revealed to be so in your interview. *bIQtIqDaq vIjaH.* He also 
revealed that *leng* can take a destination as its object.

> If you want to call these “locative verbs”, go for it. I don’t see a 
> problem with that. I see it as neither better or worse than “verbs of 
> motion”. Both descriptors are incomplete,

"Locative verbs" is not incomplete. It is simply a shorter version of 
the phrase Okrand himself used in TKD: "verbs whose meanings include 
locative notions." I put it in scare quotes to note that it is not a 
term used by Okrand.

"Verbs of motion," on the other hand, is incomplete and misleading, 
however, because it does not include verbs whose meanings include 
locative notions that aren't related to motion, and because it does 
include verbs whose meanings include motion but do not include locative 
notions (like *Sal*).


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