[tlhIngan Hol] [Spam] tu'be'lu' vs tu'lu'be

[nIqolay Q]

MO sent an email to Qov about this once, confirming that {tu'lu'} is
becoming a fixed phrase. You can find the text here:
http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/ThereIs

In this sense, {tu'be'lu'} is what you get if you're being proper (or
pedantic, depending on the listener's attitude towards casual speech
constructions), and {tu'lu'be'} is what you get if you conceive of {tu'lu'}
as a single fixed unit in its own right, rather than as a combination of
verb + suffix.

I'm not sure if {-lu'be'} on its own has a well-defined meaning. (One of
these days, if I get the opportunity, I'd like to ask about whether {-be'}
can be used with various suffixes like {-lu'} and the aspect suffixes, and
what those constructions would mean.)


On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 9:41 AM, Steven Boozer <sboozer at uchicago.edu> wrote:

> The only two examples of {tu'be'lu'} I'm aware of are:
>
>   QuvlIjDaq yIH tu'be'lu'jaj
>   May your coordinates be free of tribbles! (PK)
>
>   vaSvamDaq tuq veng je quvvaD Heghqangbogh SuvwI' tu'be'lu''a'
>   Is there nobody in this hall prepared to die for the honor of your tribe
> and city? (PB)
>
> {tu'lu'be'} is used in all the other examples (and there are many).
>
> --Voragh
>
> ----------------------------------------Original
> Message-----------------------------------
> From: Lieven L. Litaer
>
> Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how I remember this:
> This question has been asked AND answered before at least once, but I
> don't have the answer at hand. But I can answer shortly:
>
> - There IS a difference between the two.
> - There are canon examples that show the difference.
>
> Am 12.01.2018 um 15:00 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
> > I can't understand why some people use {tu'lu'be'} instead of
> {tu'be'lu'}.
>
> Another possible reason is that {tu'lu'} has grown to an expression on its
> own ("there is") and the {-be'} negates this expression.
>
> {tu'lu'be'}
> It is not the situation that somebody discovers.
> The situation that somebody discovers is negated.
>
> {tu'be'lu'}
> It is the situation of not discovering. The subject is not defined.
> It is negated that it discovers, but with indefinites subject.
>
> Does that make sense at all? Just tell me if it's more confusing than
> before :-)
>
> --
> Lieven L. Litaer
> aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany"
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol at lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/attachments/20180112/1d332725/attachment-0016.htm>