[tlhIngan Hol] Imperatives and {-be'}

[Lieven]

On 7/6/2017 11:14 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
>> "Even though tkd says that {-be'} cannot be used with imperatives, it 
>> seems that this means only that it cannot be used to form negative 
>> imperatives. For example, a sentence such as {HIleghbe'moH} seems to 
>> be possible"
>>
>> I can't understand this. Isn't the {HIleghbe'moH} a negative 
>> imperative ? Doesn't it mean "make me not see !" ?

Am 06.07.2017 um 17:28 schrieb SuStel:
> boQwI' is wrong.

Don't be so strict; just because boQwI' mentions something we have no 
rue for, it does not mean that it's wrong. As you said, there is no 
example for or against this, so you cannot be sure at all.

> I don't know how the creator came to that conclusion. 
> It would be convenient if we could, but TKD prohibits it and I don't 
> think we've ever seen a counterexample.

TKD does not explicitely prohibit THIS example, it prohibits using -be' 
in the puporse of a negative imperative. Opposed to other suffixes, -be' 
is a Rover and changes its meaning depending on where it stands.

(besides, always keep in mind that TKD was never intented to be 100% 
complete, so thhe author may just have skipped this specific situation.)

What we can be sure of is that {HIleghmoHbe'} is forbidden, because the 
-be' negates the command {HIleghmoH}, so we need -Qo' here.

If I'd stick to the rules, I should just replace the be' with the -Qo' 
and get {HIleghQo'moH}... but wait: "Unlike {-be',} the position of 
{-Qo'} does not change" (TKD) so it comes to the end: {HIleghmoHQo'} - 
but that is something else, right?

Just like the note in boQwI', I am also convinced that the following 
phrases should be grammatical:

{HIleghmoH} "make me see"
{HIleghbe'moH} "make me not see"
It's different from "Don't make me see", which is different in English 
as well.
{HIleghbe'moHQo'} "Don't make me not see"

Anyway, to avoid this, use -Ha' instead. It can be use in imperatives.

-- 
Lieven L. Litaer
aka Quvar valer 'utlh
Grammarian of the KLI
http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher
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