[tlhIngan Hol] Imperatives and {-be'}

[mayqel qunenoS]

So the {HIleghmoHQo'} is correct for "don't make me see" ?

On 6 Jul 2017 10:02 pm, "mayqel qunenoS" <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:

> lieven:
> > Anyway, to avoid this, use -Ha' instead. It can be use in imperatives.
>
> You mean something like {HIvoqHa'Qo'} for "don't mistrust me" ?
>
> qunnoq
>
> On 6 Jul 2017 9:54 pm, "Lieven" <levinius at gmx.de> wrote:
>
>> On 7/6/2017 11:14 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
>>
>>> "Even though tkd says that {-be'} cannot be used with imperatives, it
>>>> seems that this means only that it cannot be used to form negative
>>>> imperatives. For example, a sentence such as {HIleghbe'moH} seems to be
>>>> possible"
>>>>
>>>> I can't understand this. Isn't the {HIleghbe'moH} a negative imperative
>>>> ? Doesn't it mean "make me not see !" ?
>>>>
>>>
>> Am 06.07.2017 um 17:28 schrieb SuStel:
>>
>>> boQwI' is wrong.
>>>
>>
>> Don't be so strict; just because boQwI' mentions something we have no rue
>> for, it does not mean that it's wrong. As you said, there is no example for
>> or against this, so you cannot be sure at all.
>>
>> I don't know how the creator came to that conclusion. It would be
>>> convenient if we could, but TKD prohibits it and I don't think we've ever
>>> seen a counterexample.
>>>
>>
>> TKD does not explicitely prohibit THIS example, it prohibits using -be'
>> in the puporse of a negative imperative. Opposed to other suffixes, -be' is
>> a Rover and changes its meaning depending on where it stands.
>>
>> (besides, always keep in mind that TKD was never intented to be 100%
>> complete, so thhe author may just have skipped this specific situation.)
>>
>> What we can be sure of is that {HIleghmoHbe'} is forbidden, because the
>> -be' negates the command {HIleghmoH}, so we need -Qo' here.
>>
>> If I'd stick to the rules, I should just replace the be' with the -Qo'
>> and get {HIleghQo'moH}... but wait: "Unlike {-be',} the position of {-Qo'}
>> does not change" (TKD) so it comes to the end: {HIleghmoHQo'} - but that is
>> something else, right?
>>
>> Just like the note in boQwI', I am also convinced that the following
>> phrases should be grammatical:
>>
>> {HIleghmoH} "make me see"
>> {HIleghbe'moH} "make me not see"
>> It's different from "Don't make me see", which is different in English as
>> well.
>> {HIleghbe'moHQo'} "Don't make me not see"
>>
>> Anyway, to avoid this, use -Ha' instead. It can be use in imperatives.
>>
>> --
>> Lieven L. Litaer
>> aka Quvar valer 'utlh
>> Grammarian of the KLI
>> http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher
>> http://www.klingonwiki.net
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>>
>
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