[tlhIngan Hol] <<poSayDon>> continued

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Thu Jan 26 08:19:31 PST 2017

On 1/25/2017 7:50 PM, Brian Cote wrote:
> roD bIQ'a' yu'eghDaq lIgh poSayDon, che'wI' nuH'e' jeqbogh wej DuQwI'
> 'uchtaHvIS 'e' luHar ghot law'. ghu'vam tu'DI' poSayDon -- 'ej Qu'Daj'e'
> yonHa'choHghachDaj meq wa'DIch 'oH je ghu'vam'e' -- ghaH yIvqu'choHlu'.
> What irritated him most — and it was this that was chiefly responsible
> for his dissatisfaction with his job — was to hear of the conceptions
> formed about him: how he was always riding about through the tides
> with his trident.

*Qu'Daj'e' yonHa'choHghachDaj meq wa'DIch 'oH je ghu'vam'e'*

There are two potential errors here. First, you've got what appears to 
be a type 5 noun suffix followed by another noun in a noun-noun 
construction. TKD rules against doing this. Second, you seem to have an 
*-'e'* on both sides of the pronoun.

I'm not sure what effect you were going for by including *-'e'* on 
*Qu'Daj,* but your sentence would seem to work just as well without it: 
*Qu'Daj yonHa'choHghachDaj meq wa'DIch*/the first reason of the 
beginning satisfaction of his job./

The whole aside seems confusing to me. I have to think hard to bring the 
Klingon to the English. I don't think *wa'DIch* necessarily implies 
/chief./ I'd choose completely different wording: *'ej Qu' 
yonHa'ghachDaj'e' meqvam ngoy' law' Hoch ngoy' puS.*

*yIv*/annoy/ is slang. Do you want to use slang here, or the non-slang 
*nuQ*? The English does not use slang here.

> yuQ-bIQ'a' bIS'ubDaq ba'bejtaHvIS poSayDon, SImtaH. DaltaHghachDaj
> qaghmeH, DuH wa' neH ghaj ghaH: pIjHa' yupItIr Such, 'ach motlh
> lengvamvo' cheghDI', QeHqu'taH poSayDon.
> >When all the while he sat here in the depths of the world-ocean,
> doing figures uninterruptedly, with now and then a trip to Jupiter
> as the only break in the monotony — a trip, moreover, from which
> he usually returned in a rage.

*ba'bejtaHvIS* is not incorrect, but I'm uncertain why you chose to 
qualify this word.

*DuH wa' neH* should be *wa' DuH neH.*

*QeHqu'taH* is also not wrong, but I'm not sure it's exactly right to 
include the *-taH.* When Poseidon returns from Jupiter, is he in a 
continuous rage? Or are you just reporting his status at the time he 
returns, in which case you can just say *QeHqu'*?

> 'ej vaj pIjHa' bIQ'a' legh poSayDon. nom 'olumpoS HuDDaq SaltaHvIS
> neH ghaH, bIQ'a' leghlaH, 'ej not bIQ'a' qoDDaq lengchu'be'. jatlhtaH
> poSayDon, van qo' 'e' loStaH ghaH. ngugh ghaytan qaS poHHom tam,
> mI'meyDaj Qav SImqa'meH, 'ej ghIq vanbejpa' qo', nomqu' Hoch
> SuchlaHmeH ghaH.
> Thus he had hardly seen the sea — had seen it but fleetingly in
> the course of hurried ascents to Olympus, and he had never actually
>  traveled around it. He was in the habit of saying that what he was
> waiting for was the fall of the world; then, probably, a quiet moment
> would be granted in which, just before the end and having checked
> the last row of figures, he would be able to make a quick little tour.

There is a subtle difference between using *legh* and *leghpu'* in the 
first line. *pIjHa' bIQ'a' legh poSayDon* means /Poseidon rarely sees 
the s//ea//:/ it's a general condition that Poseidon doesn't get out 
much to see the sea. *pIjHa' bIQ'a' leghpu' poSayDon* /Poseidon has 
rarely seen the sea:/ up to this point, Poseidon hasn't seen much of the 
sea. The former is a statement of condition; the latter is a history. 
Either can be used here, though the version with *-pu'* is closer to the 
English. The same goes for the rest of this paragraph: are you trying to 
speak of things that are true without actually referencing things he has 
actually done or not done, or are you trying to show that those things 
have or haven't happened?

*nom 'olumpoS HuDDaq SaltaHvIS neH ghaH*/while he is merely ascending on 
Mount Olympus quickly./ I don't understand this clause, and I think the 
problem is with that *neH.* I don't understand what it's supposed to be 
doing here.

You can dispense with the *-Daq* here: *nom 'olumpoS HuD 
SaltaHvIS*/while he is ascending Mount Olympus./

*'ej not bIQ'a' qoDDaq lengchu'be'//*/and he never imperfectly travels 
on the ocean's interior./ This sentence seems pretty mixed up. Maybe 
change it to something like *'ej not bIQ'a' veH HochDaq lengchu'pu'*/and 
he has never completely traveled on all of the ocean's boundary./

*van qo' 'e' loStaH ghaH.* It is illegal to use a type 7 suffix on the 
second verb of a sentence-as-object construction. Okrand breaks this 
rule a lot, but it's still a rule.

*jatlhtaH poSayDon, van qo' 'e' loStaH ghaH.* There are a number of 
errors here. When *van* /end (an event, voyage, battle, play, etc.)/ is 
used, the subject causes the object to end. You can say this as *qo' 
vanlu'*/the world is ended./

It is illegal to use a type 7 suffix on the second verb of a 
sentence-as-object construction. Okrand does it a lot, but it's still a 
rule. *qo' vanlu' 'e' loS*/he waits for the world to be ended./

When using a verb of speech as described in the sentence-as-object 
section of TKD, the speech itself is reported in the first person. 
*jatlh poSayDon, qo' vanlu' 'e' vIloS*/Poseidon says he's waiting for 
the world to be ended; Poseidon says, "I wait for the world to be ended."/

Notice I didn't use the *-taH* there: Poseidon isn't continuously saying 
this; he has a habit of saying it. Without the *-taH,* it is a thing 
Poseidon might say, not a thing he is continuously saying. If you want 
the idea of this habit being regular, use *roD: roD jatlh poSayDon, qo' 
vanlu' 'e' vIloS.*

*ngugh ghaytan qaS poHHom tam, mI'meyDaj Qav SImqa'meH.* Purpose clauses 
must be /before/ the phrases they modify, unlike other dependent 
clauses. In any case, Poseidon isn't getting a momentary silence IN 
ORDER TO check his figures, so the purpose clause isn't really 
appropriate anyway.

This advice on purpose clauses, and the earlier advice on the grammar of 
*van,* also applies to the last sentence of this paragraph.

> poSayDon DalchoHmoH bIQ'a'. ghaHvo' pum che'wI' nuHDaj.
> bIQ HeHDaq ba'taHvIS ghaH, jot. 'emDajDaq bIH qoj. nachDaj DungDaq
> puv bo'Degh'e' mISmoH Qun HoSDaj. gho rur HeDaj.
> Poseidon became bored with the sea. He let fall his trident. Silently
> he sat on the rocky coast and a gull, dazed by his presence, described
> wavering circles around his head.

*poSayDon DalchoHmoH bIQ'a'.* *Dal* means /be boring,/ not /be bored. 
/Try something like *poSayDon SeyHa'choHmoH bIQ'a'*/the sea begins to 
cause Poseidon to be unexcited./

I'm not sure *jot* is the right verb here. *tam* seems to be better.

*'emDajDaq bIH qoj.* Two errors here. First, you forgot the final *-'e'* 
needed for a to-be sentence. Second, The proper way to say /behind him/ 
is *ghaH 'emDaq,* not *'emDajDaq.* We learn this in /Klingon for the 
Galactic Traveler:/ the way you said it marks you as a speaker of the 
Sakrej dialect.

I'm not sure there being a cliff behind him equals sitting on a rocky coast.

Furthermore, every time Okrand uses a locative on a to-be sentence, he 
also uses *-taH.* It may be most correct to say *ghaH 'emDaq bIHtaH 
qoj'e'*/cliffs are behind him./ Alternatively you could say *ghaH 'emDaq 
qoj lutu'lu'* or possibly *ghaH 'emDaq qoj tu'lu'* (because it's still 
unclear whether *tu'lu'* is a special construction that can ignore the 
verb prefix, which Okrand has sometimes used).

*nachDaj DungDaq puv bo'Degh'e' mISmoH Qun HoSDaj. gho rur HeDaj.* I 
think you forgot a *-bogh* and were trying to do two things at once.

The English says the gull flies around his head, not over his head. 
Let's assume that *bav*/orbit/ is not the right verb for this; your 
*rur* solution is a good one. You could also have said *gho ghoS 
bo'Degh*/the bird travels in a circle./

This time you really need a *-taH* on *puv,* because this IS a 
continuous event, not just the report of the habit of the bird or a 
general truth that this bird tends to fly around his head.

If I were given a chance to ask Maltz for a word, I think the word I'd 
ask for would be /around. /It would, ideally, be one of those locative 
words like *'em* and *Dung.*

*bIQ'a' HeH gheghDaq ba'taH poSayDon 'ej tamtaH. pa' SaHmo' poSayDon 
mIStaH bo'Degh 'ej gho ngaDHa' ghoStaH puvtaHvIS.*


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