[tlhIngan Hol] <<poSayDon>> vImughlI'

Felix Malmenbeck felixm at kth.se
Sun Jan 15 23:03:24 PST 2017

> wa'DIch would have been better. A bI'reS is the beginning of some artistic performance, not a job.

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, paq'batlh (paq'raD, Canto 14, Stanza 6) does give a precedent for using bI'reS as a timestamp.

bI'reS qeylIS vaq molor

"First, Molor taunted Kahless."

Marc Okrand also used it to refer to the beginning of a stretch of time in Message to Kronos:


ghorgh lumuch? poH tuj bI'reS nungbogh wa' jaj qeylIS DIS chorghvatlh loSmaH jav qaStaHvIS.

"When [will it be shown], you ask? In the days that follow the summer solstice in the Year of Kahless 846."

It's a very strange sentence, both grammatically and in its description of days following the summer solstice ("a day that precedes the beginning of the warm season"), so it's worth taking with some grains of salt. However, it does appear that {poH tuj bI'reS} means "the beginning of the warm season".

I do have some *highly* speculative head canon about this usage:

I suspect that perhaps, in 24th century tlhIngan Hol, bI'reS only means "beginning (of a play/opera/story/speech/performance/work)". However, perhaps it *used* to mean "beginning" in a more generic sense, and can therefore be be heard in many ghe'naQmey nIt.

If so, one can see how it might still sometimes makes it way into modern translations (like paq'batlh) of no' Hol operas, because readers/viewers/listeners are expected to be familiar with it or understand it from context.

And perhaps for similar reasons, it is sometimes used when speaking *about* operas; poetically, metaphorically or just pretentiously. Similar to the way you might speak of preludes and crescendos outside of musical contexts.

Again, that's highly speculative, but I personally would quite like to keep the word {bI'reS} fairly specific to a performance context, and this would be one possible way of reconciling that with these two canonical examples.

From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces at lists.kli.org> on behalf of SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 04:26
To: tlhingan-hol at lists.kli.org
Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] <<poSayDon>> vImughlI'

On 1/15/2017 9:34 PM, Brian Cote wrote:

ej vaj ghaH QeHqu'moH qechna'vam 'ej bI'reS Qu'DajvaD
ghaH parqu'moH.

Disregarding your suggestions for recasting these sentences
for the moment.

{bI'reS} - I was intending to use it as a time stamp, as in
 the {paq'batlh}, however, I'm thinking {wa'DIch} might have
been more appropriate here.

wa'DIch would have been better. A bI'reS is the beginning of some artistic performance, not a job.

{Qu'DajvaD ghaH parqu'moH} - I'll explain my thinking here.
 I was intending to write /(this idea specifically) caused him to
really dislike his duty/. I based this on the example of
 {paqvaD qanejmoH}, but as I'm currently writing this,
 I'm realizing that this probably falls under the category of
the "prefix trick", correct? I was thinking that {ghaH} would be
 the explicit direct object and {Qu'Daj} would be the explicit
 indirect object. This obviously didn't work, correct?

Does paqvaD qanejmoH appear in paq'batlh? I have only about two-thirds of it typed in and searchable, and what I have already done doesn't contain that phrase.

Our first example of how to do this was on a SkyBox card, where the phrase was ghaHvaD quHDaq qawmoH it causes him to remember his heritage. Following this pattern, your desired sentence would be ghaHvaD Qu'Daj parqu'moH it causes him to really dislike his task.

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