[tlhIngan Hol] wa'DIch

[mayqel qunenoS]

Thanks for replying.

Initially, I thought of using {bI'reS}, however there was a problem with
regards to the fact, that the canon sentences which use it don't employ
punctuation. So, here is the problem..

> 1) bI'reS qeylIS vaq molor.
> «First, Molor taunts Kahless.»

If this sentence was meant to be {bI'reS, qeylIS vaq molor}, then I could
understand it as a timestamp. "First, Molor taunts Kahless".

But since paq'batlh doesn't employ punctuation, there is the possibility
that this sentence was meant to be {bI'reS. qeylIS vaq molor}. So now the
translation becomes "Beginning of the story. Molor taunts Kahless". Or
maybe even "Beginning of the story: Molor taunts Kahless".

> 2) may' bI'reS bejtaHvIS mon.
> «First, he watches the battle smiling.»

This is even more confusing. If the {bI'reS} here was meant to be a
timestamp, then the klingon sentence should be {bI'reS may' bejtaHvIS mon}.
Let alone the fact, that even in this case, without the punctuation we
would have the ambiguities discussed at the "First, Molor taunts Kahless"
sentence.

At the original paq'batlh sentence, If {may'} is the object of {bej}, then
why isn't it placed right before it ? The way I understand this sentence is
{may' bI'reS, bejtaHvIS mon} "The beginning of the battle while he is
watching (it) he smiles".

> 3) tera' DIS wa' Hut vagh Hut, bI'reS puv 'amerI'qa' 'ev chan 'ev >
X-wa'maH vagh. muDDaq neH muD Dujmey vorgh lu'orlu',
> 'ach loghDaq puvlaH Dujmey 'orbogh nuv 'e' 'agh X-wa'maH
> vagh.
> «The North American X-15, initially flown in 1959, bridged the
>  gap between piloted flight in the atmosphere and piloted
> space flight.»

If the punctuation of this sentence was written by 'oqranD (was it ?), then
here I can understand the {bI'reS} indeed being used as a timestamp.

If however the punctuation wasn't written by 'oqranD, and if the "," wasn't
placed before the {bI'reS} by him, then there could be the possibility that
the {bI'reS} refers to the "1959", to mean "at the beginning of 1959".

> 4) wa'DIch nach 'ay'...
> «First Nach, the form of the head, ...»

I can't understand this sentence at all. All I get is "First, part of the
head.."

> 5) wa'DIch Hegh moratlh.
> «First, Morath fell.»

I could understand this being the use of {wa'DIch} as a timestamp, as long
as this sentence isn't the first of a group of sentences where numbering
takes place (is it ?). For example "First, Morath fell, second kahless
laughed, third the blade glowed etc.."

qunnoq

On Aug 23, 2017 5:08 PM, "André Müller" <esperantist at gmail.com> wrote:

> There are several possibilities, for which we also have canonical
> sentences, {bI'reS} and also {wa'DIch} used as time stamps:
>
> {bI'reS} 'beginning, prologue, first, initially, after' (used also as a
> time stamp at the beginning of the sentence)
>
> 1) bI'reS qeylIS vaq molor.
> «First, Molor taunts Kahless.»
>
> 2) may' bI'reS bejtaHvIS mon.
> «First, he watches the battle smiling.»
>
> 3) tera' DIS wa' Hut vagh Hut, bI'reS puv 'amerI'qa' 'ev chan 'ev X-wa'maH
> vagh. muDDaq neH muD Dujmey vorgh lu'orlu', 'ach loghDaq puvlaH Dujmey
> 'orbogh nuv 'e' 'agh X-wa'maH vagh.
> «The North American X-15, initially flown in 1959, bridged the gap between
> piloted flight in the atmosphere and piloted space flight.»
>
> {wa'DIch} 'first, original, at first'
>
> 4) wa'DIch nach 'ay'...
> «First Nach, the form of the head, ...»
>
> 5) wa'DIch Hegh moratlh.
> «First, Morath fell.»
>
> So it seems, both are fine. I also do not see a semantic difference
> between them.
>
> Also consider {-pa'} 'before', which you could use for English "first",
> e.g. "If we want to open this door, we first need a key." --> "Before we
> open this door, we require its key."
>
> Greetings from Zurich,
> - André
>
> 2017-08-23 14:12 GMT+02:00 mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com>:
>
>> Often, I come across the need to express the context of "first/at
>> first/initially etc". As in "first, I want you to know.."
>>
>> Can this meaning be expressed by the use of {wa'DIch} ? I think I had
>> read somewhere in the klingon language wiki, that this could indeed be
>> done, but I don't remember the exact link of the page where I read it, so I
>> can't be certain.
>>
>> qunnoq
>>
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