[tlhIngan Hol] A quick thought on time

Fri Nov 4 10:58:51 PDT 2016

ok, thanks ! I'll add this to my notes too !

qunnoH jan puqloD

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer at uchicago.edu> wrote:
> Here's Okrand's original post from February 1999. AFAIK there is no further information on using the {Qoylu'pu} formula.  Notice that the numbers used with {-logh} are relatively small - e.g. twice, six times, eight times - as if counting the hourly chimes of a clock or the half-hourly "bells" on a ship.
>
> Voragh
>
>
> ***************************************************************************
> From: Marc Okrand <...>
> Newsgroups: startrek.klingon
> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999
> Subject: Re: wanI' to replace time related relative pronoun
>
> Will Martin wrote:
>>Meanwhile, wouldn't it be really cool if Marc Okrand just told us how to
>>deal with time issues like this? I mean, "What time is it?" seems like a
>>basic enough question. The only answer he has given us so far is the
>>possible idiom {tlhaqwIj chu'Ha'lu'pu'}. I would think a Klingon would
>>have a more straight-forward way of asking what time it is. Or maybe a
>>Klingon simply would not ask what time it is unless his tlhaq was broken
>>or missing?
>
> Actually, there are several ways to ask "What time is it?" in Klingon.
> Here are a couple.
>
> In dealing with time in interplanetary communication, Klingons have come
> to use the 24-hour system favored by the Federation.  There are 24 hours
> in a day (meaning 24 Earth hours in an Earth day), numbered one through
> 24.  For example:
>
>     tera' rep wa'
>     "Earth hour one" or "one o'clock"
>
>     tera' rep cha'maH
>     "Earth hour 20" or "20 o'clock" or "eight o'clock p.m."
>
>     tera' rep loS wejmaH
>     "Earth hour 4:30"
>
> If the context is clear, the word tera' "Earth" may be left out:
>
>     rep cha'maH  "20 o'clock, eight o'clock p.m."
>
> When working within this system, one doesn't inquire as to the time; one
> demands that the number of the current hour be specified.  Thus, the
> equivalent expression to "What time is it?" is a command:
>
>     rep yIper!  "Ascertain the hour! Specify the hour!"
>
> This is literally "Label the hour!".  Though the verb per "label" is usually used in the sense of "attach or assign a name to,"  it can also be used for such notions as "ascertain, specify, pin down."  This is not considered slang or idiomatic.
>
> When giving the time using this system, hours are numbered, not counted.
> That is, one says rep cha' "hour two, hour number two, two o'clock," not
> cha' rep or cha' repmey "two hours" (a plural suffix, here -mey, is not needed when a number modifies a noun, but it is sometimes used anyway).  Accordingly, it is not customary to ask for the time by saying rep tItogh or repmey tItogh "Count the hours!".
>
> In nonmilitary contexts (as rare as these may be) and in situations where
> interplanetary communication is not a concern, the most common way of
> asking "What time is it?" in Klingon is quite different.  It is based on
> the way the question was asked long ago, in a time before Klingons
> traveled around the galaxy and before there was any significant amount of
> interaction between Klingons and residents of other planets:
>
>     'arlogh Qoylu'pu'?
>
> This is literally "How many times has (someone) heard (it)?" or "How many
> times has it been heard?"  ('arlogh "how many times?" a word that
> functions adverbially, made up of the question word 'ar "how much? how
> many?" and the special number suffix -logh "times" [as in "six times"];
> Qoylu'pu' "someone has heard (it)," made up of Qoy "hear," -lu'
> "indefinite subject," -pu' "perfective,"  that is, the action has been
> completed).
>
> What is not clear from this locution is what it is that has supposedly
> been heard.  In modern Klingon, the "what" in this phrase is never
> expressed.
>
> It appears as though, long ago, at least some Klingons were notified of
> the time by some audible signal (though what means were used to calculate
> the time in the first place remain to be discovered).  Perhaps this signal
> was a specific sound (a person shouting? a beat on a drum? a gong? the
> growl of an animal?) and that word was originally part of the expression,
> for example, 'arlogh bey Qoylu'pu'? "How many times has someone heard
> the howl? How many times has the howl been heard?"  Or maybe the expression contained a more general word such as ghum "alarm" or wab "sound, noise": 'arlogh wab Qoylu'pu'? "How many times has someone heard the sound?  How many times has the sound been heard?"
>
> It has also been speculated that there was once a bit more to this
> expression, namely an element stating the time period the questioner was
> concerned about.  For example, maybe people said:
>
>     DaHjaj 'arlogh Qoylu'pu'?
>
> That is, "Today, how many times has someone heard it?", suggesting that the questioner is concerned about how much time has gone by "today" (as opposed to, say, "this week").
>
> Or maybe the fuller expression was a little less specific:
>
>     qen 'arlogh Qoylu'pu'?
>
> "Recently, how many times has someone heard it?" (qen "recently, a short
> time ago").
>
> Regardless of its original full form, the expression comes down to us now
> as simply 'arlogh Qoylu'pu'?.  The phrase is considered an idiom because
> what it means ("What time is it?") cannot be understood on the basis of
> the meanings of its components ("How many times has someone heard it?").
>
> The answer to the question 'arlogh "How many times?" is, as might be
> expected, X-logh, where X is some number.  For example:
>
>     cha'logh Qoylu'pu'.
>
> This is literally "Someone has heard it twice" or "It has been heard
> twice" (cha'logh "twice," from cha' "two"  plus -logh "times").
> This is the Klingon equivalent to "It's two o'clock."  Originally, this
> was a statement of time in the traditional Klingon system, but it is now
> also used for the 24-hour system.
>
> The idiomatic 'arlogh Qoylu'pu' also shows up in such questions as "What
> time do we leave?":
>
>     mamejDI' 'arlogh Qoylu'pu'?
>
> This is literally "When we leave, how many times will someone have heard
> (it)?" or "When we leave, how many times will it have been heard?".
>
> An answer might be "We (will) leave at eight o'clock:
>
>     mamejDI' chorghlogh Qoylu'pu'
>
> Literally, "When we leave, someone will have heard (it) eight times".
>
> Since subordinate clauses such as mamejDI' "when we leave" can come
> before or after the main clause, it's also possible to say:
>
>     'arlogh Qoylu'pu' mamejDI'?
>     chorghlogh Qoylu'pu' mamejDI'.
>
> Literally, "How many times will someone have heard (it)  when we leave?
> Someone will have heard (it) eight times when we leave."
>
> In actual conversation, of course, it's usually not so repetitive.  You'd
> probably hear:
>
>     'arlogh Qoylu'pu' mamejDI'?
>     chorghlogh Qoylu'pu'.
>
> "How many times will someone have heard (it) when we leave?  Someone will
> have heard (it) eight times."
>
> Or even:
>
>     'arlogh Qoylu'pu' mamejDI'?
>     chorghlogh.
>
> "How many times will someone have heard (it) when we leave?  Eight times."
>
> ***************************************************************************
>
>>
>> mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > De'vID:
>> >> wa'maHvatlh cha'maH rep
>> >> wa'maH wa'vatlh loSmaH rep
>> >
>> > If I want to express these with the {Qoy'lu'pu'}, then how do I do it
>> > ? {wa'maHvatlh cha'maHlogh Qoy'lu'pu'} and {wa'maH wa'vatlh loSmaHlogh
>> > Qoy'lu'pu'} ?
>>
>> qaja'pu' jay'!
>>
>> {cha'maH tup ret wa'maHlogh Qoy'lu'pu', cha'maH tup pIq wa'maH cha'logh
>> Qoy'lu'pu'.}
>>
>> --
>> De'vID
>> _______________________________________________
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