[tlhIngan-Hol] A question on {ngIq}

Felix Malmenbeck felixm at kth.se
Tue Jun 7 04:05:35 PDT 2016

Personally I reserve the use of {ngIq} for when I want the sense of "each in series" or "one by one", since we already have good terminology for expressing "just one": We have {wa'}, {mob}, {neH} and {nIteb}.

{chegh wa' ghoqwI' mob.}
= "One lone spy returned."

{chegh wa' ghoqwI' neH.}
= "Only one spy returned."
(The use of {neH} rather than {mob} might imply that you were expecting more.)

As for using a plural suffix to specify this meaning, I'd advise against that, as the only example we have where {ngIq} is explicitly numbered, it is singular:

{ngIq nuv luHoH.}
"They killed the warriors one by one."

But yes, this is certainly a word that would be nice to know more about; this seemingly dual meaning makes it all the more exciting!

From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces at lists.kli.org> on behalf of mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 09:40
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
Subject: Re: [tlhIngan-Hol] A question on {ngIq}

thank you felix and qurgh, for adding to the conversation ;

By now, I realize that we do not have a clear-cut solution to this
problem - a solution provided bu 'oqranD, that is -.

So, after everything I read in this thread so far, I come to realize
that we need to depend on context, in order to understand whether we
must read "a single one" or "one by one".

However my problem remains : If I am to use the word {ngIq}, then how
do I specify for the reader, which use of it I am employing ?

Today, a few minutes after I woke up, this solution came to mind :

If I'm aiming for the "single one" meaning, I will use {ngiq} in
conjuction with {wa'}. Example :

jIHvaD ngIq wa' vIghro' Danob.
you gave for me a single cat.

Of course now, this raises the question : "do I place the {wa'} before
or after the {ngIq} ?". But I do not see a reason, it could not be
placed either way. Both "one single cat" and "a single one cat cat"
are the same after all..

Now, if I am aiming for the "one by one' meaning, then I need to use
context to specify.

Hoch vIghromey' DISurghta'. wa'DIch wa' vIghro' wISurghta' ghIq
latlh.. ngIq vIghromey'vam DISurghta'.
we skinned all the cats. first we skinned one cat, then another.. one
by one we skinned them.

However, even if we didn't go to these lengths, to provide for the
"one by one" meaning, I guess that if not anything else, the use of
the prefix {DI-}, expresses that we are talking about the group, from
which group we were skinning the cats one after the other, in

And because of this reason, I agree with qurgh that for the ""We
destroyed his birds of prey one by one", the {ngIq toQDujmeyDaj
DIQaw'ta'}, is the way to go.

Anyway, only 'oqranD can clarify this, so if anyone would like, then
please do ask him in the qep'a' to come..

mayqel qunnoQ

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 8:14 PM, qurgh lungqIj <qurgh at wizage.net> wrote:
> This is my opinion on {ngIq} (so it may be wrong). To me it represents each
> single item within a collection of items, with the noun coming after it
> describing what is in the collection.
> {ngIq naH} - "Each fruit (in a collection of fruit)"
> {ngIq naH vIlarghpu' 'ej ghIq naH vIparHa'bogh vISoppu'} - "I sniffed each
> fruit, and then I ate the fruit I liked"
> {ngIq nuH} - "A single weapon (from a collection of weapons)"
> {Hoch jaghpu'lI' HoHmeH ngIq nuH lo'} - "In order to kill all his enemies,
> he used each weapon"
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 12:04 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > ngIq tonSaw' lo' 'ej tIqDu' lel
>> > ngIq tonSaw' lo' 'ej quvqa'
>> > ngIq tonSaw' lo' 'ej rIn may'
>> > In one single move, he removed the hearts,
>> > In one single move, he restored his honor,
>> > In one single move, the battle was done.
>> Here I understand the "one single move" translation, over the "one by
>> one", because the latter makes no sense.
> I see {tonSaw'} as a collection of moves, so Kahless is using each single
> move to do the actions.
>> > nIteb chegh molor ngIq ghoqwI'
>> > One by one Molor's scouts return
>> Why "one by one" and not "a single scout of Molor returned alone" ?
> I see this as "alone, each of Molor's scouts returned". There is a
> collection of them, but they are doing things individually. Since they came
> back alone, they return "one by one".
>> > ngIq raQ - 150 QaS
>> > outposts cost 150 [forces] each
>> Why {ngIq raQ}, and not {Hoch raQ} ? Why the {ngIq raQ} is given as
>> "each outpost" instead of "a single outpost" ?
> Each outpost is a single output from the collection of outposts (houses)
> that come with the game, but you can buy more than 1 at a time, so we use
> the word "each".
> A single candy bar cost $10, so if you have a box of candy bars each bar
> will cost $10.
> The same goes for the rest of the Monopoly purchases.
>> Now, ok ; I can leave with the fact that in the given translations
>> "each" and "single", seemingly are used in a random and apparently
>> interchangeable way.
> Because "each" is a "single" item from the pool of items. The English word
> used in the translation is based on whatever makes most sense in the
> context. If I only buy 1 outpost, a single outpost costs X, if I put 10
> outposts, each outpost costs X.
>> But I really do have a problem - a major problem - with the sentences :
>> > nIteb chegh molor ngIq ghoqwI'
>> > One by one Molor's scouts return.
>> > ngIq nuv luHoH
>> > they killed the warriors one by one.
>> Is there a rule here I'm missing ? Why, why, why "one by one" and not
>> "a single one" ?
> Because it's not a single one, it's what each individual in the collection
> is doing.
> The second line is: "They killed each person (one at a time)." They didn't
> the people all at the same time.
>> And to repeat my original question :
>> If I wanted to write :
>> "We destroyed his birds of prey one by one", then what should I write ?
>> ngIq toQDujmeyDaj DIQaw'ta' ?
>> or
>> ngIq toQDujmeyDaj wIQaw'ta' ?
>> or maybe something else ?
> Are there multiple ships that were destroyed, one at time? Then I'd go with:
> ngIq toQDujmeyDaj DIQaw'ta' - We destroyed each of his birds of prey (one at
> a time, not all together).
> qurgh
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