[tlhIngan Hol] How do you explain {'InSong} ?

[mayqel qunenoS]

is there a difference between the klingon syllable, and the english
syllable ? what is the definition of a klingon syllable ?

qunnoH jan puqloD
ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'

On 10 Dec 2016 3:48 pm, <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:

> “It's worth stating that I don't believe the rules of Klingon syllable
> structure have ever been directly stated, but rather this is based on
> observation”
>
>
>
> In his recent “Klingon 101” lecture, Okrand explained the rules of a
> Klingon syllable, though I think he forgot to include final *rgh.*
>
>
>
> “In the event where the forst syllable is simply CV (tera'ngan, lulIgh,
> bIreQtagh, ...), there may be room for interpretation where one syllable
> ends and the other ends. Normally, the CV syllable gets "swallowed", so
> that the two syllables almost sound like one; tera' sounds like "vra" and
> verengan sounds like "vrengan".
>
>
>
> I don’t do this. I don’t think I’ve ever heard Okrand do this. Klingon
> doesn't schwa vowels the way English does. Where does this idea come from?
>
>
>
> “This confusion might also arise when using the -oy suffix. Is this the
> only syllable that can begin on a vowel? Or does it change the stress
> pattern of the word it's appended to in such a way that the syllable
> becomes -Coy? (for example, would jupoy be ju-poy, perhaps just ending up
> sounding like "jpoy"?)”
>
>
>
> *-oy* is not a syllable; it’s a suffix. It’s usually added to a word
> ending in a consonant, and TKD suggests that a *‘* is added first if the
> word ends in a vowel. Adding the suffix completes the syllable. Though I
> don’t give much weight to actors’ pronunciations, I will point out that
> Azetbur pronounces *vavoy* as *va-VOY.*
>
>
>
> --
> SuStel
> http://trimboli.name
>
>
>
> *From: *Felix Malmenbeck <felixm at kth.se>
> *Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 6:30 AM
> *To: *tlhingan-hol at kli.org
> *Subject: *Re: [tlhIngan Hol] How do you explain {'InSong} ?
>
>
>
> It's worth stating that I don't believe the rules of Klingon syllable
> structure have ever been directly stated, but rather this is based on
> observation.
>
>
>
> The majority of all cases can be described as such:
>
>
>
> Every syllable begins with a consonant, followed by a vowel.
>
> This may be (and usually is) followed by a consonant, or one of the three
> permissible terminal consonant clusters: -rgh, -w' or -y'.
>
> No syllable ends on -ow, -ow', -uw or -uw'.
>
>
>
> So single syllable options are:
>
>
>
> CV - tI Do ta ...
>
> CVC - batlh chuch por ...
>
> CVrgh - 'argh burgh qorgh ...
>
> CVw' - maw'  law' ghaw' ... (interestingly, there don't appear to be any
> -ew' or -Iw' words)
>
> CVy' - lay' loy' bey' ... (no known -Iy' examples)
>
>
>
> After one of these, you are freee tonstart a new syllable, which may also
> follow any of these forms.
>
>
>
> For example:
>
>
>
> CVC-CVC - 'InSong, bobcho', lalDan
>
> CV-CVC - lulIgh, qama'
>
> CVC-CV - HaSta, yergho
>
> CV-CV-CVC - verengan
>
> CVC-CV-CVC - Ha'DIbaH
>
>
>
> In the event where the forst syllable is simply CV (tera'ngan, lulIgh,
> bIreQtagh, ...), there may be room for interpretation where one syllable
> ends and the other ends. Normally, the CV syllable gets "swallowed", so
> that the two syllables almost sound like one; tera' sounds like "vra" and
> verengan sounds like "vrengan".
>
>
>
> This confusion might also arise when using the -oy suffix. Is this the
> only syllable that can begin on a vowel? Or does it change the stress
> pattern of the word it's appended to in such a way that the syllable
> becomes -Coy? (for example, would jupoy be ju-poy, perhaps just ending up
> sounding like "jpoy"?)
>
>
>
> There are still exceptions to these "rules", such as those seen in
> non-Klinogn names (qIrq, pIqarD, 'oqranD) and in no' Hol (paq'batlh,
> tog'det q'uti 'qoolit).
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> loghaD (CV-CVC)
>
> 10 dec. 2016 kl. 11:27 skrev mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com>:
>
> lieven:
> > '-I-n = C-V-C
> > S-o-ng = C-V-C
> > Why the confusion?
>
> according to the rule of cvc, how come that after the {n} the {S} follows
> ? this produces (cvccvc).
>
> the rule refers to clusters of three (cvc-cvc-cvc), or does it go like
> (cvcvcvcvc..) ? so far I thought that according to this rule, right after a
> consonant always a vowel follows.
>
> qunnoH jan puqloD
> ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'
>
>
>
> On 10 Dec 2016 12:16 pm, "Lieven" <levinius at gmx.de> wrote:
>
> Am 10.12.2016 um 11:01 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
>
> we are always saying that klingon phonology utilizes cvc. so, how do you
> explain {'InSong} ?
>
>
> '-I-n = C-V-C
> S-o-ng = C-V-C
>
> Why the confusion?
>
>
> --
> Lieven L. Litaer
> aka Quvar valer 'utlh
> Grammarian of the KLI
> http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher
> http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Phonology
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