Sylvester the cat in klingon
In english we say "sylvester the cat". Is it possible to say this in a similar short phrase in klingon ? I mean, without writing something as "the name of the cat is sylvester". Initially, I thought of writing the obvious {silvester vIghro'}; after all we do have {baS 'In} for "metal drum". So, I thought, why not say "(the) sylvester cat" ? On the other hand though, {baS 'In} can be translated as "drum of metal". So, perhaps this would mean that {silvester vIghro'} could/would mean "(the cat of sylvester)", which is quite different from the intended "sylvester the cat" i.e. "the cat whose name is sylvester". Does anyone have any thoughts on this matter ? ~ changan qIj
Am 19.03.2019 um 15:28 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS:
In english we say "sylvester the cat".
Is it possible to say this in a similar short phrase in klingon ? I mean, without writing something as "the name of the cat is sylvester".
That's not a new topic: The problem is called apposition. Read the Klingon Wiki for details: http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Apposition -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de
There's another example of apposition that the Klingon wiki doesn't mention. http://klingonska.org/canon/1996-sbx-s26.txt *DuraS tuq tlhIngan yejquv patlh luDub 'e' reH lunIDtaH DuraS be'nI'pu' lurSa' be'etor je.* *The sisters of the House of Duras, Lursa and B'Etor are constantly seeking a higher standing for the House of Duras within the Klingon High Council.* (I underlined the apposition. Also, the sentence begins with a N-N-N-N-N construction. This has nothing to do with the topic, but I find it delightful.) I suppose if you were worried about it being interpreted as a usual N-N construction, you could set off part of it with commas: *sIlveSter, vIghro'.* But if the context is clear that it's "Sylvester the cat" and not "Sylvester's cat", you'll probably be fine. On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 10:45 AM Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 19.03.2019 um 15:28 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS:
In english we say "sylvester the cat".
Is it possible to say this in a similar short phrase in klingon ? I mean, without writing something as "the name of the cat is sylvester".
That's not a new topic: The problem is called apposition. Read the Klingon Wiki for details: http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Apposition
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Am 19.03.2019 um 16:00 schrieb nIqolay Q:
There's another example of apposition that the Klingon wiki doesn't mention.
The wiki surely is not a final or complete thing. Anyone is welcome to make additions or corrections. The wiki is free and easy to use and open to everyone. I'd really wish that more people would be contributing there. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/KlingonLanguageWiki
In spoken English (and many of its close relatives) appositions tend to be separated in proximity from the noun they clarify, and tend to be given equal (or near-equal) stress. So: “Martok’s father” tends to naturally emphasis one of those two words over the other, and they flow together naturally. Whereas: “Martok, Father” tends to give more space between them, and give them equal weight. In Klingon, I think these same sort of parenthetical comments would (by necessity) work along similar lines. {martaq vav…} looks like “Father of Martok”, however if I wrote {martaq, vav, …} there is more visual space and separation that clearly sets off vav from martaq; this is similar to what we have to do in lists (the Klingon “oxford comma”) to clarify noun-noun vs listed items; and — by necessity — is reflected in our speech. {vIghro’, SIveSter pongbogh, vIghaj} seems like a perfectly plausible sentence in conversation — because of how conversations naturally evolve. The speaker states a statement “I have a cat”, but realises after the first word that they need to clarify the cat’s name (for whatever reason), and inserts the clarifying phrase. It happens all the time in natural languages due to how sentences are cognitively formed. Or it might be: {SIveSter, vIghro’wIj, vItu’be’} where the clarification came in the moment in response to an inquisitive look that the listener gave the speaker because the listener didn’t know the cat’s name. However, I’m on shaky ground based on Canon and rules as revealed. I’ll admit that. —jevreH Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 19, 2019, at 10:45, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 19.03.2019 um 15:28 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS: In english we say "sylvester the cat".
Is it possible to say this in a similar short phrase in klingon ? I mean, without writing something as "the name of the cat is sylvester".
That's not a new topic: The problem is called apposition. Read the Klingon Wiki for details: http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Apposition
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
participants (4)
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Jeffrey Clark -
Lieven L. Litaer -
mayqel qunen'oS -
nIqolay Q