On 8/9/2017 10:35 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
Is {Quv} "coordinates" singular or plural ?
Yes. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On 8/9/2017 10:35 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
Is {Quv} "coordinates" singular or plural ?
Am 09.08.2017 um 16:37 schrieb SuStel:> Yes. Am 09.08.2017 um 16:42 schrieb ghunchu'wI' 'utlh:
As with most Klingon nouns, it can be either.
mayqel's question should have been "Is {Quv} /inherently/ plural?" I also see this word as one which is basically singular, but only its english translation is in plural, because "coordinates" consist of multiple numbers. So 1 {Quv} may be "100, 200, 300" for instance. While talking about the coordinates of several planets, which are several groups of coordinates, I believe that {Quvmey} would work as well. I only remember the canon phrase {QuvlIj yIH tu'be'lu'jaj} "May your coordinates be free of tribbles". This may include the place you are being at, but also all the places you are going to visit. It doesn't tell us much about its use though. Just my two cents. I may be wrong with this. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net
Is {no'} singular or plural? On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 10:35 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
Is {Quv} "coordinates" singular or plural ?
qunnoq
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
I’m not sure if qunnoq got an answer to this question. no' is inherently plural in meaning, but grammatically singular. E.g. reH no' yIquvmoH Always honor your ancestors. (KGT 178): yIquvmoH, Honor them! (actually, this is Honor him/her!; the inherently plural noun no', ancestors, takes a singular pronoun) Other examples of no’: targhlIj yab tIn law' no'lI' Hoch yabDu' tIn puS Your targ has a bigger brain than all your ancestors put together! PK Hochlogh no' yIquvmoH All times honor your ancestors. (sic) KGT no' DIr ancestor hanging (“ancestors’ skin”) is a ceremonial ornament displayed on the wall. no' Hol ancient language (“ancestors’ language”) is discussed in KGT. A single ancestor is a qempa'. It works just like mang and negh: (KGT 49f): mang is used when the warrior under discussion is described in terms of his membership in a fighting unit (for example, as a crew member on an attack cruiser). Perhaps for this reason it is sometimes translated soldier. The usual plural form of mang is a different word altogether: negh (warriors, soldiers). The word mangpu' is seldom used, but it is not ungrammatical. It carries with it the notion that there are individuals (more than one mang) making up the group; negh focuses on the group as a unit. --Voragh From: tlhIngan-Hol [mailto:tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org] On Behalf Of nIqolay Q Is {no'} singular or plural? qunnoq
I meant, is {Quv} inherently singular or plural ? The way that {pIgh} "ruins" is inherently singular ? (if I remember correctly). qunnoq On 9 Aug 2017 5:42 pm, "ghunchu'wI' 'utlh" <qunchuy@alcaco.net> wrote:
On Aug 9, 2017, at 10:35 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
Is {Quv} "coordinates" singular or plural ?
As with most Klingon nouns, it can be either.
-- ghunchu'wI' _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
All nouns which have an inherent plural meaning are grammatically singular. "We know the coordinates" would be {Quv wISov}, not {Quv DISov}*. boQwI' lists an example from an Enterprise episode: {jol Quv yIchegh} "Return to the transport site". Note that the prefix is {yI-}, not {tI-} -- "return to it", not "return to them". On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 10:50 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
I meant, is {Quv} inherently singular or plural ? The way that {pIgh} "ruins" is inherently singular ? (if I remember correctly).
qunnoq
On 9 Aug 2017 5:42 pm, "ghunchu'wI' 'utlh" <qunchuy@alcaco.net> wrote:
On Aug 9, 2017, at 10:35 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
Is {Quv} "coordinates" singular or plural ?
As with most Klingon nouns, it can be either.
-- ghunchu'wI' _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Lieven wrote:
I also see this word as one which is basically singular, but only its English translation is in plural, because "coordinates" consist of multiple numbers.
nIqolay provided the example (from ENT “Affliction” I was about to, so I’ll just contribute this from TOS "The Mark of Gideon": SCOTT: Prepare to beam aboard a representative of the Gideon council. HODIN: My assistant will provide you with the proper… What is the word? SPOCK: “Coordinates.” HODIN: Thank you. --Voragh From: tlhIngan-Hol [mailto:tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org] On Behalf Of nIqolay Q All nouns which have an inherent plural meaning are grammatically singular. "We know the coordinates" would be {Quv wISov}, not {Quv DISov}*. boQwI' lists an example from an Enterprise episode: {jol Quv yIchegh} "Return to the transport site". Note that the prefix is {yI-}, not {tI-} -- "return to it", not "return to them". On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 10:50 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com<mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com>> wrote: I meant, is {Quv} inherently singular or plural ? The way that {pIgh} "ruins" is inherently singular ? (if I remember correctly). On 9 Aug 2017 5:42 pm, "ghunchu'wI' 'utlh" <qunchuy@alcaco.net<mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net>> wrote: On Aug 9, 2017, at 10:35 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com<mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com>> wrote:
Is {Quv} "coordinates" singular or plural ?
As with most Klingon nouns, it can be either. -- ghunchu'wI' _______________________________________________
On 8/9/2017 10:50 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
I meant, is {Quv} inherently singular or plural ? The way that {pIgh} "ruins" is inherently singular ? (if I remember correctly).
The question is really, does *Quv* represent multiple things packaged together in a single noun, or just one thing? Imagine a map with a grid system on it. There is a point on the map. You can read the grid system to identify the exact position on the map. The reading you get is the *Quv.* Is that the reading or the sum of separate readings? In English, it depends on which word we use. If we call that /coordinates,/ we're saying it's the combination of an x-coordinate and a y-coordinate (or whatever coordinate system you're using); it's plural because we're talking about a measurement with multiple components. If we call that /position,/ we're saying it's the unique representation on the map as measured with the grid system. That's singular, because the components are not being described. So we don't really know whether *Quv* is a collective noun or not, but it's not really important. The only time its collectiveness or not would be important is when someone wants to explicitly add a *-mey* to the word, which is usually optional anyway. I believe it is not a collective noun, because in addition to making perfect sense as a singular concept, we're not given a separate, singular form of it. There is no separate noun /coordinate./ I think the confusion simply comes from the way English uses the word. I think *Quvmey* refers to multiple points on a grid, and they don't have to be scattered all about. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
participants (6)
-
ghunchu'wI' 'utlh -
Lieven -
mayqel qunenoS -
nIqolay Q -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel