Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, October 15, 2016 Klingon word: chaQ Part of speech: verb Definition: thrust upward with end of *bat'leth* Source: KGT (212 KE, 260 EK) This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh@kli.org).
Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, October 15, 2016
Klingon word: chaQ Part of speech: verb Definition: thrust upward with end of *bat'leth*
(KGT 59): There is an extensive vocabulary for the moves associated with bat'leth use. To thrust or lunge toward one's opponent, for example, is {jop}. To deflect a thrust--that is, to parry--is {way'}. To thrust either end of the bat'leth (as opposed to the long part of the blade) upward is {chaQ}. To change the approximate orientation of the weapon from horizontal to vertical is {ngol}; the reverse is {lev}. To slide the blade of one's bat'leth along the blade of the opponent's weapon is {DIj}. To twirl or rotate the bat'leth is {jIrmoH} and to toss it from one hand to the other (the same word is used whether left to right or right to left) is {baQ}. SEE ALSO: yan wield, use or manipulate a sword (v) -- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 01:55:22PM +0000, Steven Boozer wrote:
Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, October 15, 2016
Klingon word: chaQ Part of speech: verb Definition: thrust upward with end of *bat'leth*
(KGT 59): There is an extensive vocabulary for the moves associated with bat'leth use. To thrust or lunge toward one's opponent, for example, is {jop}. To deflect a thrust--that is, to parry--is {way'}. To thrust either end of the bat'leth (as opposed to the long part of the blade) upward is {chaQ}. To change the approximate orientation of the weapon from horizontal to vertical is {ngol}; the reverse is {lev}. To slide the blade of one's bat'leth along the blade of the opponent's weapon is {DIj}. To twirl or rotate the bat'leth is {jIrmoH} and to toss it from one hand to the other (the same word is used whether left to right or right to left) is {baQ}.
This makes me wonder: is there a specific term that we know of meaning "to thrust either end of the bat'leth *downward*"? That seems to be a fairly common move in the combat shown on screen in Star Trek, usually parried by holding the blade horizontal to catch the thrust. Or would you just say {jop} and it would be assumed that that was what you were describing? -SapIr
On 10/17/2016 10:27 AM, kechpaja wrote:
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 01:55:22PM +0000, Steven Boozer wrote:
Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, October 15, 2016
Klingon word: chaQ Part of speech: verb Definition: thrust upward with end of *bat'leth* (KGT 59): There is an extensive vocabulary for the moves associated with bat'leth use. To thrust or lunge toward one's opponent, for example, is {jop}. To deflect a thrust--that is, to parry--is {way'}. To thrust either end of the bat'leth (as opposed to the long part of the blade) upward is {chaQ}. To change the approximate orientation of the weapon from horizontal to vertical is {ngol}; the reverse is {lev}. To slide the blade of one's bat'leth along the blade of the opponent's weapon is {DIj}. To twirl or rotate the bat'leth is {jIrmoH} and to toss it from one hand to the other (the same word is used whether left to right or right to left) is {baQ}.
This makes me wonder: is there a specific term that we know of meaning "to thrust either end of the bat'leth *downward*"? That seems to be a fairly common move in the combat shown on screen in Star Trek, usually parried by holding the blade horizontal to catch the thrust. Or would you just say {jop} and it would be assumed that that was what you were describing?
I'd expect *Qach* to be used for that motion; it's the same motion you'd use with**an axe or club. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
Also note that {Qach} is just {chaQ} backwards. This might have been intentional. - André 2016-10-17 16:46 GMT+02:00 SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>:
On 10/17/2016 10:27 AM, kechpaja wrote:
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 01:55:22PM +0000, Steven Boozer wrote:
Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, October 15, 2016
Klingon word: chaQ Part of speech: verb Definition: thrust upward with end of *bat'leth*
(KGT 59): There is an extensive vocabulary for the moves associated with bat'leth use. To thrust or lunge toward one's opponent, for example, is {jop}. To deflect a thrust--that is, to parry--is {way'}. To thrust either end of the bat'leth (as opposed to the long part of the blade) upward is {chaQ}. To change the approximate orientation of the weapon from horizontal to vertical is {ngol}; the reverse is {lev}. To slide the blade of one's bat'leth along the blade of the opponent's weapon is {DIj}. To twirl or rotate the bat'leth is {jIrmoH} and to toss it from one hand to the other (the same word is used whether left to right or right to left) is {baQ}.
This makes me wonder: is there a specific term that we know of meaning "to thrust either end of the bat'leth *downward*"? That seems to be a fairly common move in the combat shown on screen in Star Trek, usually parried by holding the blade horizontal to catch the thrust. Or would you just say {jop} and it would be assumed that that was what you were describing?
I'd expect *Qach* to be used for that motion; it's the same motion you'd use with an axe or club.
-- SuStelhttp://trimboli.name
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On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 10:46:44AM -0400, SuStel wrote:
On 10/17/2016 10:27 AM, kechpaja wrote:
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 01:55:22PM +0000, Steven Boozer wrote:
Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, October 15, 2016
Klingon word: chaQ Part of speech: verb Definition: thrust upward with end of *bat'leth* (KGT 59): There is an extensive vocabulary for the moves associated with bat'leth use. To thrust or lunge toward one's opponent, for example, is {jop}. To deflect a thrust--that is, to parry--is {way'}. To thrust either end of the bat'leth (as opposed to the long part of the blade) upward is {chaQ}. To change the approximate orientation of the weapon from horizontal to vertical is {ngol}; the reverse is {lev}. To slide the blade of one's bat'leth along the blade of the opponent's weapon is {DIj}. To twirl or rotate the bat'leth is {jIrmoH} and to toss it from one hand to the other (the same word is used whether left to right or right to left) is {baQ}.
This makes me wonder: is there a specific term that we know of meaning "to thrust either end of the bat'leth *downward*"? That seems to be a fairly common move in the combat shown on screen in Star Trek, usually parried by holding the blade horizontal to catch the thrust. Or would you just say {jop} and it would be assumed that that was what you were describing?
I'd expect *Qach* to be used for that motion; it's the same motion you'd use with**an axe or club.
In KGT, {Qach} is defined as "wield or swing (a weapon)", without any specification as to which direction the weapon is being swung in, so it seems a bit more general than what I had in mind. On the other hand, {Qach} is {chaQ} backwards, which would be a very MO thing to do if {Qach} is, in fact, the word for "thrust downwards with a bat'leth". - SapIr
Kechpaja:
This makes me wonder: is there a specific term that we know of meaning "to thrust either end of the bat'leth *downward*"? That seems to be a fairly common move in the combat shown on screen in Star Trek, usually parried by holding the blade horizontal to catch the thrust. Or would you just say {jop} and it would be assumed that that was what you were describing?
I'd expect *Qach* to be used for that motion; it's the same motion you'd use with an axe or club.
SapIr:
In KGT, {Qach} is defined as "wield or swing (a weapon)", without any specification as to which direction the weapon is being swung in, so it seems a bit more general than what I had in mind.
On the other hand, {Qach} is {chaQ} backwards, which would be a very MO thing to do if {Qach} is, in fact, the word for "thrust downwards with a bat'leth".
It's used WRT the bat'leth in the paq'batlh (paq'raD Canto 20: title): pe'vIl mupmeH betleH Qach "The Mighty Blow of the Bat'leth" -- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
On 10/17/2016 10:59 AM, kechpaja wrote:
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 10:46:44AM -0400, SuStel wrote:
On 10/17/2016 10:27 AM, kechpaja wrote:
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 01:55:22PM +0000, Steven Boozer wrote:
Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, October 15, 2016
Klingon word: chaQ Part of speech: verb Definition: thrust upward with end of *bat'leth* (KGT 59): There is an extensive vocabulary for the moves associated with bat'leth use. To thrust or lunge toward one's opponent, for example, is {jop}. To deflect a thrust--that is, to parry--is {way'}. To thrust either end of the bat'leth (as opposed to the long part of the blade) upward is {chaQ}. To change the approximate orientation of the weapon from horizontal to vertical is {ngol}; the reverse is {lev}. To slide the blade of one's bat'leth along the blade of the opponent's weapon is {DIj}. To twirl or rotate the bat'leth is {jIrmoH} and to toss it from one hand to the other (the same word is used whether left to right or right to left) is {baQ}.
This makes me wonder: is there a specific term that we know of meaning "to thrust either end of the bat'leth *downward*"? That seems to be a fairly common move in the combat shown on screen in Star Trek, usually parried by holding the blade horizontal to catch the thrust. Or would you just say {jop} and it would be assumed that that was what you were describing? I'd expect *Qach* to be used for that motion; it's the same motion you'd use with**an axe or club.
In KGT, {Qach} is defined as "wield or swing (a weapon)", without any specification as to which direction the weapon is being swung in, so it seems a bit more general than what I had in mind.
In the word-list, yes, but it's also explained as the specific word you use for swinging an *'obmaQ* /ax (general word),/**a *jey'naS*/double-headed ax/, an *'alngegh*/axe with an added spike at the end,/ an *'aqleH*/ax with half a bat'leth at the end of a handle, a /*jeqqIj */club, bludgeon, /and a *ghanjaq*/mace./ You typically swing axes and clubs overhand, in an arc downward, just as SapIr was considering. Thus, I expect a bat'leth swing in the same manner to use the same verb, *Qach.* I don't know for sure that *Qach* means /swing a weapon in a downward arc as you would an ax or club,/ but that's my working theory. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:20:26AM -0400, SuStel wrote:
On 10/17/2016 10:59 AM, kechpaja wrote:
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 10:46:44AM -0400, SuStel wrote:
On 10/17/2016 10:27 AM, kechpaja wrote:
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 01:55:22PM +0000, Steven Boozer wrote:
Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, October 15, 2016
Klingon word: chaQ Part of speech: verb Definition: thrust upward with end of *bat'leth* (KGT 59): There is an extensive vocabulary for the moves associated with bat'leth use. To thrust or lunge toward one's opponent, for example, is {jop}. To deflect a thrust--that is, to parry--is {way'}. To thrust either end of the bat'leth (as opposed to the long part of the blade) upward is {chaQ}. To change the approximate orientation of the weapon from horizontal to vertical is {ngol}; the reverse is {lev}. To slide the blade of one's bat'leth along the blade of the opponent's weapon is {DIj}. To twirl or rotate the bat'leth is {jIrmoH} and to toss it from one hand to the other (the same word is used whether left to right or right to left) is {baQ}.
This makes me wonder: is there a specific term that we know of meaning "to thrust either end of the bat'leth *downward*"? That seems to be a fairly common move in the combat shown on screen in Star Trek, usually parried by holding the blade horizontal to catch the thrust. Or would you just say {jop} and it would be assumed that that was what you were describing? I'd expect *Qach* to be used for that motion; it's the same motion you'd use with**an axe or club.
In KGT, {Qach} is defined as "wield or swing (a weapon)", without any specification as to which direction the weapon is being swung in, so it seems a bit more general than what I had in mind.
In the word-list, yes, but it's also explained as the specific word you use for swinging an *'obmaQ* /ax (general word),/**a *jey'naS*/double-headed ax/, an *'alngegh*/axe with an added spike at the end,/ an *'aqleH*/ax with half a bat'leth at the end of a handle, a /*jeqqIj */club, bludgeon, /and a *ghanjaq*/mace./
You typically swing axes and clubs overhand, in an arc downward, just as SapIr was considering. Thus, I expect a bat'leth swing in the same manner to use the same verb, *Qach.* I don't know for sure that *Qach* means /swing a weapon in a downward arc as you would an ax or club,/ but that's my working theory.
Hmm... that makes sense. It also makes sense for that to be the more default way of thrusting/striking with the bat'leth, since the attacker is working with gravity rather than fighting it. Do we have any examples where {Qach} is used to indicate a side-to-side swing, in a context where we know that that's what was happening? - SapIr
SapIr:
Hmm... that makes sense. It also makes sense for that to be the more default way of thrusting/striking with the bat'leth, since the attacker is working with gravity rather than fighting it.
Do we have any examples where {Qach} is used to indicate a side-to-side swing, in a context where we know that that's what was happening?
AFAIK the ONLY example of {Qach} used in any context is: pe'vIl mupmeH betleH Qach "The Mighty Blow of the Bat'leth" (PB; paq'raD, Canto 20: title) I'm not sure if it helps, but note the verb used {mup} "impact, strike" - as well as the nouns {mupwI'} "hammer" and {mupwI'Hom} "mallet (for striking a musical instrument)". Perhaps the exact action is described in the Canto proper. {Qach} is mentioned a few times in KGT: (KGT 63f.): The general term for ax is {'obmaQ}. Its handle is its {DeS} and its blade is its {ghIt}. These words, {DeS} and {ghIt}, when referring to humanoid anatomy, mean arm and open, flat hand (as opposed to a fist), respectively, suggesting that at one time the ax was considered an extension of the warrior himself. A double-headed ax is a {jey'naS}, while an ax with an added spike at the end is a {'alngegh}. To wield or swing a club is {Qach}. (KGT 64): There exists a weapon that might be described as a cross between an ax and a bat'leth. The {'aqleH} has what looks like half a bat'leth at the end of a handle. To manipulate the {'aqleH} is {Qach}. (KGT 67): The most ancient and primitive of the Klingon weapons is the {jeqqIj}, the club or bludgeon. This weapon is made of wood, sometimes with inlaid rocks, and is heavier at one end than the other. Included in this category is the {ghanjaq}, often translated as "mace", a club with a metal head, sometimes sporting spikes ({DuQwI'mey}). As with axes, to wield or swing a club is {Qach}. I suspect {Qach} is a just general term for wielding (traditional?) weapons that are not swords: (KGT 61): There is also the verb {yan}, which means "wield or manipulate (a sword)". A swordfighter, then, would be a {yanwI'}, literally a "sword wielder"); the word for the specific type of sword may be, but need not be, included. It is thus proper to say {betleH yanwI'} ("bat'leth wielder") or {betleH yan} ("He/she wields a bat'leth"). naH jajmeywIj betleH vIyanbe' In my vegetable days, I did not wield a bat'leth. KGT There doesn't seem to be a general verb for wielding/using a knife or dagger although there are specialized verbs - e.g. {pe'} "cut", {SIj} "slit", {DuQ} "stab" - which are probably used with any kind of {'etlh} "sword, blade (of any kind)". -- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
{Qach} is mentioned a few times in KGT:
(KGT 63f.): The general term for ax is {'obmaQ}. Its handle is its {DeS} and its blade is its {ghIt}. These words, {DeS} and {ghIt}, when referring to humanoid anatomy, mean arm and open, flat hand (as opposed to a fist), respectively, suggesting that at one time the ax was considered an extension of the warrior himself. A double-headed ax is a {jey'naS}, while an ax with an added spike at the end is a {'alngegh}. To wield or swing a club is {Qach}.
(KGT 64): There exists a weapon that might be described as a cross between an ax and a bat'leth. The {'aqleH} has what looks like half a bat'leth at the end of a handle. To manipulate the {'aqleH} is {Qach}.
(KGT 67): The most ancient and primitive of the Klingon weapons is the {jeqqIj}, the club or bludgeon. This weapon is made of wood, sometimes with inlaid rocks, and is heavier at one end than the other. Included in this category is the {ghanjaq}, often translated as "mace", a club with a metal head, sometimes sporting spikes ({DuQwI'mey}). As with axes, to wield or swing a club is {Qach}.
Note that all of these weapons are weapons with a long handle where you hold it at one end and strike with the other end. My guess is that Qach is only applied to betleHmey when you hold one of the end handles and attempt to strike with the opposite point.
participants (7)
-
André Müller -
David Holt -
kechpaja -
qurgh＠wizage.net -
SapIr
-
Steven Boozer -
SuStel