{'e'} of a sao in {law'} {puS} constructions
I think I know this, but I'll ask anyway.. Context: There's an officer who is unfair, insubordinate, uncooperative; "a piece of work" as americans say.. And as soon as the enemies surround the ship he wants to surrender too. So the captain tells him: "you're unfair, insubordinate, uncooperative.. all this I knew, but now I see that you're a coward too, and that is the worst of all" (meaning the worst of his traits). So now, suppose we wrote: {bImaybe', bItlhIv, bIyeqqangbe'taH; Hochvam vISov. 'a DaH latlh vItlhoj.. nuch SoH 'ej 'e' qab law' Hoch qab puS} The question is whether this use of {'e'} in a law'/puS construction could be considered to be correct. But I think that it isn't, because in the slots of a law'/puS construction the only thing allowed is either a noun, or a pronoun as {jIH}, {SoH}, {ghaH}, etc, because pronouns can act like nouns too. But since the {'e'} of a sao can only be a pronoun, then it can't be allowed in a law'/puS construction. Am I right? ~ D
Am 24.08.2021 um 14:06 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS:
The question is whether this use of {'e'} in a law'/puS construction could be considered to be correct. But I think that it isn't, because in the slots of a law'/puS construction the only thing allowed is either a noun, or a pronoun as {jIH}, {SoH}, {ghaH}, etc, because pronouns can act like nouns too.
I think you are right saying that it is not allowed, but I'd explain it differently, based on how the sentence as object works, from TKD: "[pronouns 'e' and net] are used primarily, not exclusively, with verbs of thinking or observation (such as "know, see"). They are always treated as the object of the verb." So, true, it does not mention anything about the law'/puS construction. To avoid the problem, I would just replace the sentence by a noun: {nuch SoH 'ej ngoDvam qab law' Hoch qab puS} -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/En/AliceInWonderland
On 8/24/2021 8:16 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
Am 24.08.2021 um 14:06 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS:
The question is whether this use of {'e'} in a law'/puS construction could be considered to be correct. But I think that it isn't, because in the slots of a law'/puS construction the only thing allowed is either a noun, or a pronoun as {jIH}, {SoH}, {ghaH}, etc, because pronouns can act like nouns too.
I think you are right saying that it is not allowed, but I'd explain it differently, based on how the sentence as object works, from TKD:
"[pronouns 'e' and net] are used primarily, not exclusively, with verbs of thinking or observation (such as "know, see"). They are always treated as the object of the verb."
And a noun in a comparative or superlative sentence is not an object. There is no prohibition against using pronouns in comparatives/superlatives. For example, *jIH Doy' law' SoH Doy' puS*/I am more tired than you are./ http://klingonska.org/canon/2004-03-holqed-13-1.txt -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
Okrand once communicated privately with members of the Klingon Shakespeare Restoration Project (KSRP) that pronouns (being a subset of nouns) could indeed be used with stative verbs (i.e. Okrand’s “qualities”). Thus, {SoH po' law' jIH po' puS} is correct. (Cf. HQ 4.2 p.3) More examples for those keeping track: qIbDaq SuvwI''e' SoH Dun law' Hoch Dun puS You would be the greatest warrior in the galaxy. (ST5) jIH qan law’ SoH qan puS I'm older than you. (Lieven < Okrand, 7/25/2016) jIH Qup law’ SoH Qup puS I'm younger than you. (Lieven < Okrand, 7/25/2016) cha’ DISmo’ jIH qan law’ SoH qan puS I'm two years older than you. (Lieven < Okrand, 7/25/2016) cha’ ’ujmo’ jIH woch law’ SoH woch puS I'm two 'ujes taller than you. (Lieven < Okrand, 7/25/2016) -- Voragh From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> On Behalf Of SuStel On 8/24/2021 8:16 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote: Am 24.08.2021 um 14:06 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS: The question is whether this use of {'e'} in a law'/puS construction could be considered to be correct. But I think that it isn't, because in the slots of a law'/puS construction the only thing allowed is either a noun, or a pronoun as {jIH}, {SoH}, {ghaH}, etc, because pronouns can act like nouns too. I think you are right saying that it is not allowed, but I'd explain it differently, based on how the sentence as object works, from TKD: "[pronouns 'e' and net] are used primarily, not exclusively, with verbs of thinking or observation (such as "know, see"). They are always treated as the object of the verb." And a noun in a comparative or superlative sentence is not an object. There is no prohibition against using pronouns in comparatives/superlatives. For example, jIH Doy' law' SoH Doy' puS I am more tired than you are. http://klingonska.org/canon/2004-03-holqed-13-1.txt<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/klingonska.org/canon/2004-03-holqed-13-1.txt__;!!BpyFHLRN4TMTrA!u1KCeI70b1jZ0fF98wCJvKOryujLhpJqeYW-_0B9lks3djsq_3JS7tyy4mceVvhRot4$> -- SuStel http://trimboli.name<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/trimboli.name__;!!BpyFHLRN4TMTrA!u1KCeI70b1jZ0fF98wCJvKOryujLhpJqeYW-_0B9lks3djsq_3JS7tyy4mceTcQR40Y$>
participants (4)
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Lieven L. Litaer -
mayqel qunen'oS -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel