info about Star Trek Discovery from Toronto FanExpo
http://trekcore.com/blog/2017/09/recap-fan-expo-canada-star-trek-discovery-p... <As a touchstone, we looked to John Ford’s THE FINAL REFLECTION which was a work really used as a launching-off point for the Klingons by Bryan Fuller. There is Klingon text on the steps [inside the ship], we have a lot of ritual torches and sarcophagi and glyphs, and other details. For example, [one section of] the Klingon text… was all carefully researched and taken from transcripts from THE FINAL REFLECTION, and we made sure that we had accurate Klingon translation. This one, says [speaks Klingon to audience] which reads: “‘I will go now to Sto’vo’kor, but I promise one day I will return.’ Then Kahless pointed to a star in the sky and said, look for me there, in that point of light.” Which is a big promise from Kahless! ... This got into details like the game of Klin zha from THE FINAL REFLECTION, a game that warlords play against each other as a teaching game to teach military strategy… and bloodwine cups, which even have text on them — translated in this case to “May Your Blood Scream.”> Was the "point of light" thing from John Ford? I thought it was from the TNG Rightful Heir. (Or did TNG get it from Ford?) Also, we may finally see klin zha become canon on screen. I know I'll be watching for the {'IwlIj jachjaj} on the bloodwine cups. -- De'vID
The point of light thing was all TNG Rightful Heir, and it was also supposed to be a big secret that only the clerics knew so they could prove that the Kahless that returned was the real Kahless. Putting it all over stuff means that either these guys are Clerics of Borath, or that they didn't actually pay attention to what was said in the episode. I don't remember Kahless being mentioned in TRF at all. qurgh On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 2:21 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
http://trekcore.com/blog/2017/09/recap-fan-expo-canada-star- trek-discovery-panel/ <As a touchstone, we looked to John Ford’s THE FINAL REFLECTION which was a work really used as a launching-off point for the Klingons by Bryan Fuller.
There is Klingon text on the steps [inside the ship], we have a lot of ritual torches and sarcophagi and glyphs, and other details. For example, [one section of] the Klingon text… was all carefully researched and taken from transcripts from THE FINAL REFLECTION, and we made sure that we had accurate Klingon translation.
This one, says [speaks Klingon to audience] which reads: “‘I will go now to Sto’vo’kor, but I promise one day I will return.’ Then Kahless pointed to a star in the sky and said, look for me there, in that point of light.”
Which is a big promise from Kahless! ...
This got into details like the game of Klin zha from THE FINAL REFLECTION, a game that warlords play against each other as a teaching game to teach military strategy… and bloodwine cups, which even have text on them — translated in this case to “May Your Blood Scream.”>
Was the "point of light" thing from John Ford? I thought it was from the TNG Rightful Heir. (Or did TNG get it from Ford?)
Also, we may finally see klin zha become canon on screen.
I know I'll be watching for the {'IwlIj jachjaj} on the bloodwine cups.
-- De'vID _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 2:25 PM, qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
The point of light thing was all TNG Rightful Heir, and it was also supposed to be a big secret that only the clerics knew so they could prove that the Kahless that returned was the real Kahless. Putting it all over stuff means that either these guys are Clerics of Borath, or that they didn't actually pay attention to what was said in the episode.
Maybe the Clerics of Borath are bad at keeping secrets.
On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 2:25 PM, qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
The point of light thing was all TNG Rightful Heir, and it was also
supposed to be a big secret that only the clerics knew so they could prove that the Kahless that returned was the real Kahless. Putting it all over stuff means that either these guys are Clerics of Borath, or that they didn't actually pay attention to what was said in the episode.
I don't remember Kahless being mentioned in TRF at all.
qurgh
No, him pointing to the light was public knowledge. He did so in public, in front of everyone, which is why people were motivated to travel to that light and build a monastery. That he made the first betleH out of hair and lava was the big secret. vaHbo' jIb je lo' qeylIS.
On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Michael Roney, Jr. <nahqun@gmail.com> wrote:
No, him pointing to the light was public knowledge. He did so in public, in front of everyone, which is why people were motivated to travel to that light and build a monastery. That he made the first betleH out of hair and lava was the big secret.
vaHbo' jIb je lo' qeylIS.
Ahh. HIvqa' veqlargh! I thought it was common knowledge that he made the first batleth in that way. I guess it was just common knowledge that he made it in general, although saying he used hair and lava doesn't actually explain how he made it! qurgh
On 12 September 2017 at 20:42, qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Michael Roney, Jr. <nahqun@gmail.com> wrote:
No, him pointing to the light was public knowledge. He did so in public, in front of everyone, which is why people were motivated to travel to that light and build a monastery. That he made the first betleH out of hair and lava was the big secret.
vaHbo' jIb je lo' qeylIS.
Ahh. HIvqa' veqlargh! I thought it was common knowledge that he made the first batleth in that way. I guess it was just common knowledge that he made it in general, although saying he used hair and lava doesn't actually explain how he made it!
pegh'a'? paq'batlhDaq lutvam laDlaH vay' jay'. -- De'vID
On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 2:47 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12 September 2017 at 20:42, qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Michael Roney, Jr. <nahqun@gmail.com> wrote:
No, him pointing to the light was public knowledge. He did so in public, in front of everyone, which is why people were motivated to travel to that light and build a monastery. That he made the first betleH out of hair and lava was the big secret.
vaHbo' jIb je lo' qeylIS.
Ahh. HIvqa' veqlargh! I thought it was common knowledge that he made the first batleth in that way. I guess it was just common knowledge that he made it in general, although saying he used hair and lava doesn't actually explain how he made it!
pegh'a'? paq'batlhDaq lutvam laDlaH vay' jay'.
Well, all the texts of the paq'batlh we have (and all the things we know about Klingon after TKD) post-date the arrival of the clone of Kahless, when the story was okay to make public. Maybe in olden times the priests just left that part out with a "[...n lines missing...]" and a shrug. (It wouldn't be the worst explanation a sci-fi story has used to cover up plot holes.)
On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 2:47 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
Ahh. HIvqa' veqlargh! I thought it was common knowledge that he made the first batleth in that way. I guess it was just common knowledge that he made it in general, although saying he used hair and lava doesn't actually explain how he made it!
pegh'a'? paq'batlhDaq lutvam laDlaH vay' jay'.
paq'batlh lutqoq yIHarQo'. ngebqu'. The details in the paq'batlh are a myth told to the public. jIbDaj lumeQmoH jIbDaj lumeQmoH qul bIQtIQ qulHommey jIbDaj lumeQmoH 'ej bejtaHvIS baS moj jIb According to the popular story, sparks from the river of fire land in his hair and burn it into the metal from which he forges the first betleH. The secret, kept by the clerics, is that Kahless intentionally took a lock of his hair and plunged it into the lava. When the returned Kahless recounts that story instead of the one recorded in the paq'batlh, it's supposed to be proof that he is indeed who he claims to be. (The *true* truth is revealed eventually, of course.) -- ghunchu'wI'
Perhaps Kahless per se wasn’t discussed much but his hand was. <g> *Kahlesste kaase!* “Kahless' hand!” was a Klingonaase expletive referring to the Emperor Kahless, who died with his hand tied to the controls of his ship in a battle against Romulans. (TFR) I believe it was mentioned again in the fan novel "Dwellers in the Crucible" as a battle cry or yell of astonishment referring to Kahless epetai-Riskadh, a famous ship commander during the Klingon-Romulan Wars of the early 21st Century. Of course, Paramount rejected Ford’s view of the Klingons completely and developed them differently in all the series. However… I just finished watching the complete run Deep Space Nine on one of our local TV stations and was pleasantly surprised to hear General Martok dramatically exclaim "By the hand of Kahless!" – in English! – several times during the final season. It was nice to see that one of the writers had read “The Final Reflection” or at least was familiar with fandom. -- Voragh From: qurgh lungqIj The point of light thing was all TNG Rightful Heir, and it was also supposed to be a big secret that only the clerics knew so they could prove that the Kahless that returned was the real Kahless. Putting it all over stuff means that either these guys are Clerics of Borath, or that they didn't actually pay attention to what was said in the episode. I don't remember Kahless being mentioned in TFR at all. qurgh On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 2:21 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com<mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>> wrote: http://trekcore.com/blog/2017/09/recap-fan-expo-canada-star-trek-discovery-p... <As a touchstone, we looked to John Ford’s THE FINAL REFLECTION which was a work really used as a launching-off point for the Klingons by Bryan Fuller. There is Klingon text on the steps [inside the ship], we have a lot of ritual torches and sarcophagi and glyphs, and other details. For example, [one section of] the Klingon text… was all carefully researched and taken from transcripts from THE FINAL REFLECTION, and we made sure that we had accurate Klingon translation. This one, says [speaks Klingon to audience] which reads: “‘I will go now to Sto’vo’kor, but I promise one day I will return.’ Then Kahless pointed to a star in the sky and said, look for me there, in that point of light.” Which is a big promise from Kahless! ... This got into details like the game of Klin zha from THE FINAL REFLECTION, a game that warlords play against each other as a teaching game to teach military strategy… and bloodwine cups, which even have text on them — translated in this case to “May Your Blood Scream.”> Was the "point of light" thing from John Ford? I thought it was from the TNG Rightful Heir. (Or did TNG get it from Ford?) Also, we may finally see klin zha become canon on screen. I know I'll be watching for the {'IwlIj jachjaj} on the bloodwine cups. -- De'vID _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org<mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Am 12.09.2017 um 20:21 schrieb De'vID:
http://trekcore.com/blog/2017/09/recap-fan-expo-canada-star-trek-discovery-p... This one, says [speaks Klingon to audience] which reads: “‘I will go now to Sto’vo’kor, but I promise one day I will return.’ Then Kahless pointed to a star in the sky and said, look for me there, in that point of light.”
For those interested, these letters were seen very shortly in one of the preview trailers; details can be found in the Klingon Wiki here: http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/PIqaDUsedInDiscovery -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net
On 12 September 2017 at 21:14, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 12.09.2017 um 20:21 schrieb De'vID:
http://trekcore.com/blog/2017/09/recap-fan-expo-canada-star-trek-discovery-p... This one, says [speaks Klingon to audience] which reads: “‘I will go now to Sto’vo’kor, but I promise one day I will return.’ Then Kahless pointed to a star in the sky and said, look for me there, in that point of light.”
For those interested, these letters were seen very shortly in one of the preview trailers; details can be found in the Klingon Wiki here: http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/PIqaDUsedInDiscovery
Technically, only the second half is in those photos. The "I will go now to Sto'vo'kor, but I promise one day I will return" part hasn't been seen in writing. -- De'vID
participants (7)
-
Alan Anderson -
De'vID -
Lieven -
Michael Roney, Jr. -
nIqolay Q -
qurgh lungqIj -
Steven Boozer