is nIyma' an 'oH or a ghaH
In the following link: https://www.kli.org/tlhIngan-Hol/2008/November/msg00003.html 'oqranD describes the word {nIyma'} and its' meaning. For ease of reference, I copy -paste here the relevant info: -------------- Hi, Lieven. Good to hear from you! I was lucky enough to have a conversation with Maltz the other day and I told him about your email about {nIyma'}. Maltz was very surprised. He said, "Where did they learn that word?" It turns out, {nIyma'} is the Klingon word for "phantom" or "apparition" -- something that seems to appear, but isn't really there. It's not the same as "ghost," which is the spirit of a dead person (and may or may not look like that person, or may not be visible at all), and it's not the same as "spirit" (or {qa'}), which is sort of a life force within a person (that escapes when a person dies and may exist somewhere somehow). He said using {qa'} for "ghost" was OK, but I got the impression there may be another word as well (though he didn't offer one). He said that although the word doesn't really mean "invited guest that doesn't show up," it made a lot of sense to him to use {nIyma'} to refer to such a person. He also said that Nima should feel honored that his name is so similar to a Klingon word. -------------- Based on the above, is nIyma' an 'oH or a ghaH ? I just can't decide which of the two pronouns would be appropriate. ~ Qa'yIn
I would say it's {'oH}. I do not kno more than what the message says, but I think that an "apparition" can be anything, like "I saw an apparition of a tree". Okrand says "something that seems to appear", so he clearly did not restrict it to persons. Of course I would not set this in stone. It depends on context; If I saw {nIyma'} of a person, which might even speak to me, I would use a different pronoun. I think it's the "he, the cat" discussion. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/Word/NIyma-
lieven:
I would say it's {'oH}. I do not kno more than what the message says, but I think that an "apparition" can be anything, like "I saw an apparition of a tree". Okrand says "something that seems to appear", so he clearly did not restrict it to persons. Of course I would not set this in stone. It depends on context; If I saw {nIyma'} of a person, which might even speak to me, I would use a different pronoun.
The thing which actually confuses me in this word, is that if it's about something which isn't actually there, then how can something which actually doesn't exist, be classified as "capable of speech" ? lieven:
I think it's the "he, the cat" discussion.
I'm not aware of this discussion. Has this discussion ever taken place here and I missed it ? ~ Qa'yIn
Am 31.07.2020 um 14:33 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS:
The thing which actually confuses me in this word, is that if it's about something which isn't actually there, then how can something which actually doesn't exist, be classified as "capable of speech" ?
I turn around the question to you: What did you wish to express, needing a pronoun for it? I think of a situation like A: "I believe I saw my grandma..." B: "That was a nIyma, because your grandma is dead. What did she say?" In that situation, I would use "she" to refer to the person that was seen as part of the "apparition". If you refer to the "apparition", I would use the -mey suffix.
I'm not aware of this discussion. Has this discussion ever taken place here and I missed it ?
No. I did not refer to a specific discussion, but it comes up very often here and there. A cat, as an animal, is definitely not capable of language. Grammatically, you have to say "it" ('oH) - both in English and Klingon. But (at least in English) it's a common way to use he/she pronouns if the speaker has a close relationship to their cat or dog. - "See that cat on the roof? It's black." - "See this cat? Her name is spot. She's my best friend." -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/Word/VIghro-
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mayqel qunen'oS