Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Klingon Word of the Day: cheH
So, with regards to the "act against" translation of {magh}, we can't be certain that it's 100% 'oqranD-approved, right ? qunnoq On 14 Aug 2017 9:54 pm, "nIqolay Q" <niqolay0@gmail.com> wrote: On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 2:48 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
Is the Skybox translation given by 'oqranD himself ?
qunnoq
He did the Klingon translations, yes, though someone else probably wrote the original English. _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Am 14.08.2017 um 20:58 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
So, with regards to the "act against" translation of {magh}, we can't be certain that it's 100% 'oqranD-approved, right ?
If you take it very exact, than yes. It seems obvious that the English was there first. When okrand had to tanslate it, he searched for a suitable word. Since there was no word meaning "act against", he probably thought like "that's quite the same as betraying someone", so he picked that word instead. It didn't really change the meaning of the phrase. It's like many people like to use the word {targh} for "dog". It's not correct, but conveys the idea. Anyway, I would stick to the first definition magh = "betray" and regard the other translation as a clue on how one could use the word. After all, working against somebody that you are supposed to help is betraying. But {magh} is not work against /anyone/. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net
On 8/14/2017 3:08 PM, Lieven wrote:
Am 14.08.2017 um 20:58 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
So, with regards to the "act against" translation of {magh}, we can't be certain that it's 100% 'oqranD-approved, right ?
If you take it very exact, than yes.
It seems obvious that the English was there first. When okrand had to tanslate it, he searched for a suitable word. Since there was no word meaning "act against", he probably thought like "that's quite the same as betraying someone", so he picked that word instead. It didn't really change the meaning of the phrase.
It's like many people like to use the word {targh} for "dog". It's not correct, but conveys the idea.
Anyway, I would stick to the first definition magh = "betray" and regard the other translation as a clue on how one could use the word. After all, working against somebody that you are supposed to help is betraying. But {magh} is not work against /anyone/.
We can't take either position with certainty. Okrand defined *magh* as /betray./ But he used *magh* in place of /act against/ in one translation, without comment. Does that mean *magh* means all the things both /betray/ and /act against/ mean? We don't know. But odds are good that if you want to translate /act against,/ you might find that *magh* is a good fit, regardless of whether that's actually an exact translation. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
lieven:
Anyway, I would stick to the first definition magh = "betray
I agree. I think, that it would be very difficult/close to impossible for someone reading {magh} to actually think "work against", instead {betray}. Sticking to the strictest interpretation of canon, is the only way to assure, that while using the language, we are able to actually understand each other. qunnoq On 14 Aug 2017 10:08 pm, "Lieven" <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 14.08.2017 um 20:58 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
So, with regards to the "act against" translation of {magh}, we can't be certain that it's 100% 'oqranD-approved, right ?
If you take it very exact, than yes.
It seems obvious that the English was there first. When okrand had to tanslate it, he searched for a suitable word. Since there was no word meaning "act against", he probably thought like "that's quite the same as betraying someone", so he picked that word instead. It didn't really change the meaning of the phrase.
It's like many people like to use the word {targh} for "dog". It's not correct, but conveys the idea.
Anyway, I would stick to the first definition magh = "betray" and regard the other translation as a clue on how one could use the word. After all, working against somebody that you are supposed to help is betraying. But {magh} is not work against /anyone/.
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
As I understand it, the SkyBox people sent their English text to Okrand, who translated it for them. Unless we have evidence that they changed the English text before sending it to the printers I think we can accept it as an acceptable variant. Besides, what’s the difference between betraying someone and acting against someone? Note we also have {'ur} “commit treason”, {QuS} “conspire”, {'ov} “compete” and the slang form {bol} available: (KGT 147): Probably because of the parallel formation of bolwI' and maghwI' (that is, verb plus -wI'), the verb bol (drool) is sometimes used to mean betray, as if it were equivalent to magh. In this usage, bol, like magh, may take an object; that is, the sentence may indicate who is betrayed: mumaghpu' ("He/she has betrayed me") or mubolpu' ("He/she has betrayed me"; literally, "He/she has drooled me"). In its nonslang sense, bol does not take an object: bolpu' ("He/she has drooled"). --Voragh From: tlhIngan-Hol [mailto:tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org] On Behalf Of mayqel qunenoS So, with regards to the "act against" translation of {magh}, we can't be certain that it's 100% 'oqranD-approved, right ? qunnoq On 14 Aug 2017 9:54 pm, "nIqolay Q" <niqolay0@gmail.com<mailto:niqolay0@gmail.com>> wrote: On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 2:48 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com<mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com>> wrote: Is the Skybox translation given by 'oqranD himself ? qunnoq He did the Klingon translations, yes, though someone else probably wrote the original English. _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org<mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
participants (4)
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Lieven -
mayqel qunenoS -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel