Correction noted. I just realized that {Duq} is a double pun – or maybe it’s an extended pun from “(small) bowl” to “be stunned” and back. People have pointed out that 1) "duck pins" is a form of bowling with a smaller, hole-less ball and shorter, widely spaced pins; and 2) Norm Duke is a pro-bowler, "the Tiger Woods of bowling". To get back to Michael’s question… another way to say “I was bowled over” or “I was dumbfounded” is “You could have knocked me over with a feather.” None of these are inherently positive or negative. -Voragh --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Felix Malmenbeck

PUN: “Or one could say... ‘bowled over’. ({Duq} also means a small bowl.)” (Felix, 7/20/2017)

I believe this was actually suggested by nIqolay Q, and on the 31st of July (thread: qep'a' cha'maH loSDIch New words and some tidbits); I think I've heard the phrase "bowled over" once or twice, but it isn't something I would've come up with :) ________________________________ From: Steven Boozer Dumbfounded means to be so surprised as to be left speechless, i.e. “dumb” as in the phrase “deaf and dumb”. It’s not inherently positive or negative, but rather that the surprise or shock is so sudden or profound that it temporarily “discombobulates” you (another good word to look it up in M-W). About the verb {Duq} “be stunned” (also “be astonished, astounded, dumbfounded, shocked”) revealed at qep’a’ 2017: (qurgh, 7/29/2017): [Okrand] also said about {Duq} and {yay'}, which have similar meanings, that they are synonyms but {Duq} tends to be more so than {yay'}. PUN: “Or one could say... ‘bowled over’. ({Duq} also means a small bowl.)” (Felix, 7/20/2017) SEE ALSO: mer surprise [someone] mIS be confused, mixed up -- Voragh Ca'Non Master of the Klingons --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mayqel qunen'oS The verb {yay'} is given as "be shocked, dumbfounded". As I read in m-w, the verb "shocked", is usually used for something, which upsets people. And as far as the "dumbfounded" goes, I couldn't make sense, whether it has an inherent positive or negative meaning. So, does someone know, if {yay'} is to be used only for pleasant or only for unpleasant surprises ?

In English, the word “surprise” requires context to know whether it’s positive or negative. The only thing it definitely suggests is a lack of expectation of whatever happens. Sometimes also, lack of preparation for whatever happens. Surprise birthday party. Surprise attack. Surprise scientific discovery. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.

On Oct 29, 2019, at 3:05 PM, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:

ok, I understand so far.

But being on the subject..

Since english isn't my native language, there's something else I wonder too.

We have the verb {mer} for "surprise". In english, does the verb "surprise", has an inherent positive or negative meaning ?

Are both of the following acceptable ?

{muQuchmoH be'nalwI', mumerpu'} my wife surprised me, in order to make me happy

{romuluSnganpu' peqmeH tlhInganpu', merpu'} the klingons surprised the romulans in order to slaughter them

- bara'qa' _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

bISovbejbe'DI' tImer When in doubt, surprise them. TKW Dumer DIvI' QaS 'ej DuHIv, vaj bIwunchoH 'ej bIrIQchoH Surprise attack by Federation leaves you unprotected and damaged. MKE Hoch qImmoH mu'meyDaj ghob 'agh 'ej val yIntaH 'e' luleghmo' chaH mer All were bemused by his words, Wise and full of spirit, And astonished to see him alive. PB Voragh ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> On Behalf Of SuStel

On 10/29/2019 3:05 PM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:

We have the verb {mer} for "surprise". In english, does the verb "surprise", has an inherent positive or negative meaning ? Are both of the following acceptable ? {muQuchmoH be'nalwI', mumerpu'} my wife surprised me, in order to make me happy {romuluSnganpu' peqmeH tlhInganpu', merpu'} the klingons surprised the romulans in order to slaughter them English surprise is neither inherently positive nor inherently negative. Without any evidence, I would not assume that Klingon mer is either. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name