Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, January 30, 2021 Klingon word: yaDpach Part of speech: noun Definition: toenail Source: This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh@kli.org).
Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, January 30, 2021 Klingon word: yaDpach Part of speech: noun Definition: toenail Source: _______________________________________________ Has this one been confirmed? I thought it was just a suggested form used on the mailing list, modelled on {nItlhpach} "fingernail". SEE: pach claw, talon (n) yaD toe (n) SEE ALSO: qam foot (n) mov top of foot (n) bem sole (of foot) (n) -- Voragh, Ca'Non Master of the Klingons Please contribute relevant vocabulary from the last year or two. I’ve fallen behind in updating my files and adding cross-references for related words.
On 2/1/2021 11:05 AM, Steven Boozer wrote:
Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, January 30, 2021
Klingon word: yaDpach Part of speech: noun Definition: toenail Source: _______________________________________________
Has this one been confirmed? I thought it was just a suggested form used on the mailing list, modelled on {nItlhpach} "fingernail".
Annoyingly, boQwI' says, "This word does not seem to have appeared in canon, but it is obvious by analogy with *nItlhpach...*" Nuh-uh. That's not how it works. If its origin is just someone who isn't Okrand making it up, this word has no business being here. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
I’m with SuStel on this one. As convenient as it would be to have a word for toenail, and as logical as this parallel-to-another-word-we-have as this may be, if it’s not in the lexicon, it’s not in the lexicon. We can ask Okrand/Maltz for it, but we can’t just take it for ourselves. We could also use it, marking it perhaps with an asterisk, just to remind ourselves that it’s not a Klingon word, even if we really, REALLY need the word “toenail” in our precious tlhIngan communications, and we humans who are speaking Klingon can understand, even if we are using a local-community-created neologism, extending the vocabulary beyond the Emperor’s dialect. Perhaps in conversation, we might raise our hands and make air quotes. Basically, this isn’t English. In Klingon, unlike English, we can’t glom new smorphs whenever we want and expect everyone to grock our synosinclastic symnabulisms. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Feb 2, 2021, at 10:25 AM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 2/1/2021 11:05 AM, Steven Boozer wrote:
Klingon Word of the Day for Saturday, January 30, 2021
Klingon word: yaDpach Part of speech: noun Definition: toenail Source: _______________________________________________
Has this one been confirmed? I thought it was just a suggested form used on the mailing list, modelled on {nItlhpach} "fingernail". Annoyingly, boQwI' says, "This word does not seem to have appeared in canon, but it is obvious by analogy with nItlhpach..."
Nuh-uh. That's not how it works. If its origin is just someone who isn't Okrand making it up, this word has no business being here.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name <http://trimboli.name/>_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 17:36, Will Martin <willmartin2@mac.com> wrote:
I’m with SuStel on this one.
As convenient as it would be to have a word for toenail, and as logical as this parallel-to-another-word-we-have as this may be, if it’s not in the lexicon, it’s not in the lexicon. We can ask Okrand/Maltz for it, but we can’t just take it for ourselves.
The reason it's in the {boQwI'} database is because there are several users who use it to read KLI mailing list emails, and *{yaDpach} has been used enough times as if it were just a normal word that people expected it to be analysed. And it's an obvious compound along the lines of what's described in TKD 3.2.1 (so it's not comparable to something like {'I'}). (I think Marc Okrand intended the compounding rule to be productive. I'm glad that it's mostly not, by agreement among skilled speakers, because it makes Klingon easier to parse.) Look at who the author of these threads is: {yaDpach DIngDaq tI DuQwIj} - https://www.kli.org/tlhIngan-Hol/2000/October/msg00073.html {be'nalwI' yaDDu'} - https://www.kli.org/tlhIngan-Hol/2011/August/msg00001.html {boQwI'} isn't only a lexicon but a grammar and word analyser, but it's used by people to read things authored by people other than Marc Okrand. It contains some words which don't originate from Marc Okrand, and these are noted as such. (For example, it contains words made up by Star Trek authors, although Marc Okrand has recently retroactively blessed almost all of them.) It's also integrated with KWOTD, so if {yaDpach} shows up as a KWOTD, it has to be an entry in {boQwI'} or it won't show up. -- De'vID
On 2/2/2021 2:11 PM, De'vID wrote:
The reason it's in the {boQwI'} database is because there are several users who use it to read KLI mailing list emails, and *{yaDpach} has been used enough times as if it were just a normal word that people expected it to be analysed.
Much better would be if people seeing *yaDpach* would look it up and find no entry at all. The meaning would be clear: it's not a word.
Look at who the author of these threads is: {yaDpach DIngDaq tI DuQwIj} - https://www.kli.org/tlhIngan-Hol/2000/October/msg00073.html <https://www.kli.org/tlhIngan-Hol/2000/October/msg00073.html> {be'nalwI' yaDDu'} - https://www.kli.org/tlhIngan-Hol/2011/August/msg00001.html <https://www.kli.org/tlhIngan-Hol/2011/August/msg00001.html>
Which just goes to show the level of confusion this non-word has caused, when one of the people arguing against it has been using it himself. If charghwI' doesn't recognize a non-word when he uses it, what chance does a new student have?
{boQwI'} isn't only a lexicon but a grammar and word analyser, but it's used by people to read things authored by people other than Marc Okrand.
But most people don't understand that. No matter how many "not canonical"s and question marks and asterisks you add to it, someone who looks up /toenail/ and finds *yaDpach* isn't going to look at the fine print... or if they do, they'll say, "But I need this word, and here is boQwI' offering it to me." -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 20:31, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 2/2/2021 2:11 PM, De'vID wrote:
The reason it's in the {boQwI'} database is because there are several users who use it to read KLI mailing list emails, and *{yaDpach} has been used enough times as if it were just a normal word that people expected it to be analysed.
Much better would be if people seeing *yaDpach* would look it up and find no entry at all. The meaning would be clear: it's not a word.
In that case, it needs to be removed from the KWOTD rotation. Otherwise, what happens is that many people who are subscribed to KWOTD look it up on {boQwI'}, and I get a flurry of emails saying it's missing. -- De'vID
On 2/4/2021 9:50 AM, De'vID wrote:
On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 20:31, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name <mailto:sustel@trimboli.name>> wrote:
On 2/2/2021 2:11 PM, De'vID wrote:
The reason it's in the {boQwI'} database is because there are several users who use it to read KLI mailing list emails, and *{yaDpach} has been used enough times as if it were just a normal word that people expected it to be analysed.
Much better would be if people seeing *yaDpach* would look it up and find no entry at all. The meaning would be clear: it's not a word.
In that case, it needs to be removed from the KWOTD rotation. Otherwise, what happens is that many people who are subscribed to KWOTD look it up on {boQwI'}, and I get a flurry of emails saying it's missing.
I second this motion. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
participants (5)
-
De'vID -
Klingon Word of the Day -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel -
Will Martin